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Die Ou Man
10th June 2008, 17:46
Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:


Die woord van God is.


Deur die Heilige Gees geïnspireer is.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.


'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Die Ou Man
10th June 2008, 19:01
'n Goeie vertrekpunt om te bepaal of die Bybel die woord van God is, is die Pentateug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentateuch) onder die Jode bekend as die Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah). Die Pentateug/Torah behels die vyf Boeke van Moses naamlik:


Génesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis)
Exodus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus)
Levítikus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviticus)
Númerie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Numbers)
Deuteronómium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomy)


Volgens tradisie en oorlewering is die vyf boeke van die Pentateug/Torah deur Moses geskryf. Dit is egter nie die waarheid nie.

'n Letterlike analise van die sogenaamde vyf Boeke van Moses (Pentateug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentateuch)) dui daarop dat dit deur 'n aantal persone geskryf is. Die Pentateug is die resultaat van 'n samevoeging van verskillende tradisies en verhale.

Die mees aanvaarbare teorie wat hierdie sameflansing verklaar, staan bekend as die Dokumentêre Hipotese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis), of Graf-Welhausen Hipotese, na aanleiding van die outeurs daarvan.

Die Dokumentêre Hipotese beskou die Pentateug as saamgestel deur 'n reeks redakteurs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah_redactor) uit vier verskillende hoofstroom literêre tradisies. Hierdie tradisies staan bekend as J, E, D en P. Die onderstaande diagram toon aan hoe hierdie tradisies met mekaar in verband staan.


http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/2251/jepdwu0.gif

J (die Jahwehis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahwist) of Jerusalem bron) gebruik die Tetragramaton as die naam van God. Hierdie bron se belangstelling toon aan dat hy gefunksioneer het in die suidelike Koningkryk van Juda, na die verdeling van Israel. J is die skrywer van die grootste deel van Génesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis).

E (die Elohis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohist) of Efraimitiese bron) gebruik die naam, Elohim vir God tot Exodus 3-6, waar die Tetragramaton (YHWH) aan Moses en Israel openbaar word. Dit blyk dat die Elohis in die noordelike Koninkryk van Israel gewoon het. Die Elohis het die Aqedah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggadah) verhaal en ander gedeeltes van Génesis, Exodus en Numerie geskryf.

Die onderskeie verhale van die Jahwehis en die Elohis is teen ongeveer 722 vC na die val van die Noordelike Ryk saamgevoeg.

D (Die Deuteronomis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomist)) was die skrywer van die grootste gedeelte van Deuteronómium (en waarskynlik ook Joshua, Rigters, Samuel en Konings). Daar word vermoed dat Deuteronómium die boek is wat deur Koning Josia in 622 vC ontdek is (sien 2 Konings 22:8).

P ( die Priesterlike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_source) bron) het die eerste skeppingsverhaal van Génesis 1 geskryf, sowel as Levítikus en ander segmente met geslagsregisters en inligting aangaande die priesterskap en aanbidding. Volgens Welhausen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Wellhausen) was P die laaste skrywer en is die Torah finaal saamgevoeg teen ongeveer 539 vc. Daar word egter aanvaar, deur onder andere James Milgron, dat die P dokument materiaal bevat wat dateer voor die ballingskap era.

Daar is steeds meningsverskil aangaande welke van dokumente P en D die laaste byvoeging verteenwoordig. Daar is egter algemene konsensus dat die Dokumentêre Hipotese die beste daarin slaag om die duplikasie, teenstrydighede en verskille in terminologie en teologie in die eerste vyf boeke van die Bybel te verklaar.

Hier volg 'n paar voorbeelde van verskille tussen die vier verhale wat vervleg is om die Pentateug saam te stel.



Jahwehis |
Elohis |
Priesterlik |
Deuteronomis

Klem op Juda|Klem op noordelike Israel|Klem op Juda|Klem op sentrale heiligdom

Beklemtoom leiers | Beklemtoon die profetiese | Beklemtoon die kultiese | Beklemtoon trou aan Jerusalem

Antromorfe spraak aangaande God | Verfynde spraak aangaande God |Majestieuse spraak aangaande God | Spraak herroep God se werk

God wandel en praat met mense | God praat in drome | Kultiese benadering tot God | Moralistiese benadering tot God

God is YHWH | God is Elohim (tot Ex. 3) | God is Elohim (tot Ex.3) | God is YHWH

Gebruik Sinai | Sinai is "Horeb" | Lang geslagsregisters en lyste | Lang seremonies

Bronne:
• Friedman, "Torah (Pentateuch)" in the Anchor Bible Dictionary.
• W. Gunther Plaut, ed., The Torah: A Modern Commentary (New York: Union of American Hebrew Congregations, 1981).
• Lawrence Boadt, Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction (New York: Paulist Press, 1984).

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Ns.

Lees verder hier (http://wendag.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111) vir ernstige teenstrydighede in die sogenaamde "Woord van God".

Stefanus
4th July 2008, 21:10
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3

http://wendag.com/images/bible.jpg


As die fondamente omgegooi word, wat kan die regverdige doen? Psalm 11:3

Luther
5th July 2008, 19:55
Die eerste 5 boeke, dit beteken 'n man mag nou maar weer vark ek kreef eet, ek was hoeka so lief vir kreef

So dan is die 10 gebooie ook tot niet, ek mag nou my buurman se vrou begeer

Grap maar net, ek is meer as tevrede met my eie vrou

Wat ek wel kan se is dat ek 'n paar jaar terug by 'n Homopaat was, sy het vir my gese dat ons menseras glad nie mag varkvleis eet nie, varkvleis maak ons inwendig siek, so ook kreef, kreef asook vark is aasdiere, as 'n mens dink dat jy aasdiere eet kan jy netsowel aasvoels wat vrotsvleis vreet kan eet, wel ek sit nooit ooit weer my mond aan kreef of vark nie

Dit het my op 'n staduim laat dink dat die 10 gebooie tog reg kan wees, maar nie totdat ek die Ou Man se redenasie gehoor het nie, ek se nie dat hy reg is nie maar hy laat my tog twyfel, vernaam met sy laaste pos

Bee777
17th November 2008, 15:11
Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:


Die woord van God is.


Deur die Heilige Gees geïnspireer is.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.


'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Hi Plus Ivan Pannin's bible numerics prove that the KJV is perfect and all we need to study the Bible along with a basic Strongs Concordance, see here (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin2.htm)

Ans also some amazing bible facts

Genesis 17:12: "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed."

Why was circumcision to be carried out on the eighth day? Medical science has discovered that the eighth day is the only day in the entire life of the newborn that the blood clotting element prothrombin is above 100%.


Leviticus 17:11 (written 3000 years ago): "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

The Scriptures declare that blood is the source of life. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled", and many died because of the practice. We now know that blood is the source of life. If you lose your blood, you will lose your life.
Job 28:25 To establish a weight for the wind, And apportion the waters by measure.

The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.


LINK (http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html)

Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 07:42
There are truely some amazing facts in the Bible, as in the mithology of other peoples of the world as well. The Hebrew version of ancient history is not all there is to know about ancient history. In fact it does not come near explaining Creation.

The Hebrew version is particularly flawed because of the many alterations to the scriptures of their own patriarchs by the priesthood.

The most important falsification is the deliberate attempts to alter the scriptures with the purpose to elevate the status of Jehovah from God of Israel (a tribe) to God of earth and heaven.

Initially, Jehovah was a tribal God, who "evolved" into a cosmic God, through the manipulation of scriptures in Babilon.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 07:58
There are truely some amazing facts in the Bible, as in the mithology of other peoples of the world as well. The Hebrew version of ancient history is not all there is to know about ancient history. In fact it does not come near explaining Creation.

The Hebrew version is particularly flawed because of the many alterations to the scriptures of their own patriarchs by the priesthood.

The most important falsification is the deliberate attempts to alter the scriptures with the purpose to elevate the status of Jehovah from God of Israel (a tribe) to God of earth and heaven.

Initially, Jehovah was a tribal God, who "evolved" into a cosmic God, through the manipulation of scriptures in Babilon.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Hi Ou man,
I know through my studies that creation in the KJV is perfect it is just our inability to decipher that is flawed. Ivan Pannin's work proves that it is nothing less than God inspired, have you read his work ?

I do not understand what you mean by Babylon ?
I know God had two creations, one singular Adamic line and another plural, males and females, whom He also called Adam, being ruddy.
Satan has his own creation known as the tree of knowledge which is non ruddy/white.
That is why God said " there will be enmity between your ( Satan ) seed and her ( eve/god seed) god did create the Babylonians and told them to multiply and subdue the earth, whilst He took Adam and put him in the garden, two separate actions.
The Babylonians ( later known as the gentiles), however, they thought they themselves were gods and thus built the tower of Babel, the origin of mythology etc

If you break it down for me I will show you what i have found and start reading here (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/What%20happened%20in%20Eden%20%3F)and HERE (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/IDENTIFYING%20THE%20BIBLE%27S%20CREATIONS) as it also gives some insight.

blessings in the truth of Christ
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 08:03
Bee777.

According to the Bible, how many pairs of each bird specie, was on Noah's ark?

Bee777
18th November 2008, 08:31
Bee777.

According to the Bible, how many pairs of each bird specie, was on Noah's ark?

Morning ou man, we here early LOL

umm, i don't know why you ask that question. but I get by sevens the fowl of the air GEN 7;3



Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 08:48
Bee777.

I asked the question to illustrate a very important aspect.

If I say to you that you are wrong. There was only one pair (Gen 6:19, 21). How will you go about to rasionalise this problem?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 09:09
Bee777.

I asked the question to illustrate a very important aspect.

If I say to you that you are wrong. There was only one pair (Gen 6:19, 21). How will you go about to rasionalise this problem?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Hi
I don't understand what problem?

But back to Gen 9:19
He says of TWO, after their kind

Now the word " kind" comes from the Hebrew From an unused root meaning to portion out; a sort, that is, species:

So how many kind/species were there ?
No one knows for sure.

Blessings

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 09:52
Hi

But back to Gen 9:19
He says of TWO, after their kind

Now the word " kind" comes from the Hebrew From an unused root meaning to portion out; a sort, that is, species:

Blessings

Bee777.

I will make it more simple.

The Black Eagle is found in the Middle-East. This is our (kind) specie, for the purpose of this discussion.

I asked you how many pairs of each bird specie (Black Eagle) was on the ark. You answered as follows


umm, i don't know why you ask that question. but I get by sevens the fowl of the air GEN 7;3

According to your answer, quoted from Gen. 7:3 there were 14 Black Eagles on the ark.


Bible in Basic English

And of the birds of the air, seven males and seven females, so that their seed may still be living on the face of the earth.

King James Bible

Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
I replied that you are wrong, quoting from Gen 6:20. There were only two Black Eagles on the ark.


King James Bible

Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Bible in Basic English

Two of every sort of bird and cattle and of every sort of living thing which goes on the earth will you take with you to keep them from destruction.

I say that we have a problem and my question remains: "How would you go about to rasionalise this obvious contradiction?"

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 11:22
Aha I get where the confusion comes in.

VERY IMPORTANT : you get just plain fowls which are birds, then you get " fowl of the air " which are symbolic for the second Adamic creation.



Eze 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

This is a prophesy of Christ’s invitation to the gentiles for salvation.
So we can see that these beasts and these fowls of the air are acceptable to the Lord.
We know that Jesus came to invite the gentiles to salvation with His blood sacrifice on the cross. , so we know that that the fowl of the air and the beasts of the field are God's other creation.

This word feathered comes from the Hebrew word
H3671
kaw-nawf'
From ; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army)

So already this gives us a clue that it may not be reffering to birds but possibly people.

To read further go to my site HERE (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/Symbolic%20Beasts%20and%20Fowls)
Please read the whole article.

So this opens up the question that not only Noah and his kin were on the arc, which we must look at as then Noah's kids would have had to commit incest, which although the law had not been written then, they all knew it, hence the story of why Canaan the grand child was cursed. But before I go too off topic, do you see why it is so important to understand Biblical symbolisms as stated in my other post ?

Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 12:28
Thank you for your explanation.

The truth regarding the abovementioned contradiction is actually quite simple. I will come back to this point. Let us move on.

According to the Bible, how long did the flood last?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 12:37
Hi
Let's rather finish one topic at a time before moving on and settle on a conclusion, the reason i say this is because in my past experiences by hopping around we never get a clear answer and rather becomes a to and fro of useless jabber.

In my opinion the main reason people get lost later in the Bible is because they do not understand creation, especially the garden of Eden, and it is not very complicated.

By saying we cannot find all the answers in the original english translation is very dangerous as many people will then say " what's the point, you can't count on the Bible in any event"

Our job as teachers and scholars is to research and find the answers in the one and only KJV and possibly using a basic strongs concordance.

In my humble opinion the KJV Bible is suffice, we as imperfect humans just have to learn to read it properly.

So give me your answer on the fowl you have and settle on a conclusion before moving on ?

With respect
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 12:42
Bee777.

On the contrary, there is nothing complicated about the Torah.

Can we continue now?

What was the duration of the flood?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 12:57
Bee777.

On the contrary, there is nothing complicated about the Torah.

Can we continue now?

What was the duration of the flood?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

May i ask why you are using the Torah?
Are you reading it in Hebrew?

The flood is not my area of expertise so please be patient with me while i look it up.

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 13:07
Bee777 the Torah is the first 5 Books in our Bible. We all use it.

I read the Torah in Afrikaans as it is translated in the '33 Bible. But we are moving away from the subject.

A few hours ago you were unaware of the contradictions in the flood story. That was evident from your initial answers.

However, you were quick to rasionalise (explain away) the "confusion" once you discovered it.

The answer on the question of the two creation myths in the Torah, is to be found in the flood myth.

Be patient and I will explain.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 13:40
A few hours ago you were unaware of the contradictions in the flood story. That was evident from your initial answers.

However, you were quick to rasionalise (explain away) the "confusion" once you discovered it.
Die Ou Man

What do you mean i was quick to explain away the confusion once I discovered it ?

it makes perfect sense, and my subject which i have been studying is Eden and creation..................

Ok so back to the flood, it's rather long.

it rained continually for 40 days and 40 nights, when Noah was 600 years old on the 17/02 then it stopped raining but the water prevailed another 150 days, on the 17/07 the ark rested on Mt Ararat and on the 01/10 the other mountaintops could be seen.
this gives us another say 73 days.

another 40 days and Noah sent a raven, but no luck.
then after another 7 days he sent a dove.
he stayed another 7 days.
then on the 01/01/6001 until Noah left the ark on the 27/02 which gives us another 57 days Noah left the ark.

All in all Noah was in the ark 374 days if my calculations are correct.
Which seems to be the same as when they went in on the 17/01/600 and came out at 27/02/6001

Looks like lost a day somewhere ?

Ok so in conclusion the flood was 374/375 days

was that what you were looking for?
blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 13:58
Bee777.

The two stories do not end with the two creation myths. There are also two flood myths, two covenants as well as two different versions of the Ten Commandments.

You should know that the Creator of the first creation is refered to as God (Elohim) while the Creator of the second creation myth is refered to as LORD God (Jehovah Elohim).

If you study the flood myth, you will find that the confusion that you referred to, is the result of two seperate flood stories being woven together to read as one.

However, it is easy to reconstruct the two versions into a God version (Genesis 1) and a LORD version (Genesis 2:4)

The God version does not make provision for sacrafice, therefor one pair of each will do. The LORD version puts extra birds and clean animals on the ark to be sacrafised later.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 14:09
Bee777.

The two stories do not end with the two creation myths. There are also two flood myths, two covenants as well as two different versions of the Ten Commandments.

You should know that the Creator of the first creation is referred to as God (Elohim) while the Creator of the second creation myth is refered to as LORD God (Jehovah Elohim).

If you study the flood myth, you will find that the confusion that you referred to, is the result of two seperate flood stories being woven together to read as one.

However, it is easy to reconstruct the two versions into a God version (Genesis 1) and a LORD version (Genesis 2:4)

The God version does not make provision for sacrafice, therefor one pair of each will do. The LORD version puts extra birds and clean animals on the ark to be sacrafised later.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Hi i really don't understand the point you are trying to make, maybe let me read a full article of yours so i can get the pic, sorry a bit blonde at times.

Remember when the Bible says " God" it is referring to all three, the Father, Jesus and the Holy spirit.

God, being all three created everything in my findings, and then Lord God being Jesus took over. that is also why when Jesus was here He never addressed " Lord God" as it was Him he addressed " Father"

Ok waiting to read your explanation and findings on creation.

Blessings in Truth
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 15:50
Before the written word, there were many oral traditions relating to Hebrew history. The oral traditions were later written down.

Ons such a document was the written by an unknown person, referred to as the Jahwist, because of his reference to his God as YHWH (LORD). The second creation myth comes from this source.

Another document was written by an unknown person, referred to as the Elohist because of his reference to his God as Elohim (God)

The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

witsybok
18th November 2008, 15:56
Bee777.



I say that we have a problem and my question remains: "How would you go about to rasionalise this obvious contradiction?"

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Wie se hierdie is "an obvious contradiction". Ons kan nie die skrif altyd letterlik so vertaal. Baie van die vroeë skrifte van die bybel is simbolies.

witsybok
18th November 2008, 15:57
The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man


Mag ek net vra - wie het die "Witboek" geskryf?

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 16:31
Wie se hierdie is "an obvious contradiction". Ons kan nie die skrif altyd letterlik so vertaal. Baie van die vroeë skrifte van die bybel is simbolies.

Witsybok.

God (Elohim) beveel Noag om twee van elke voël spesie en dier op die Ark te neem.

Die HERE (Jehovah) beveel Noag om sewe pare voëls en sewe pare rein dier op die ark te neem.

Hierdie het nie te make met simboliek nie. Een van die twee weergawes is vals. Beide kan nie waar wees nie.

Ons weet ook dat die onderskeid tussen rein en onrein diere eers in Levitikus gegee is. Dit volg dus logies watter weergawe vals is.

Terloops, 'n ander afleiding wat ons uit hierdie teenstrydige weergawes kan maak is dat God (Elohim) en die HERE (Jehovah) nie dieselfde Wese is nie.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 16:47
Before the written word, there were many oral traditions relating to Hebrew history. The oral traditions were later written down.

Ons such a document was the written by an unknown person, referred to as the Jahwist, because of his reference to his God as YHWH (LORD). The second creation myth comes from this source.

Another document was written by an unknown person, referred to as the Elohist because of his reference to his God as Elohim (God)

The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Thanks for the interesting info " ou man"

But that is my argument exactly, what you are saying in other words is that the Bible is not good enough on it's own ?

That would make a cruel and very unfair God, as Tant Sarie sitting alleen op die plaas with just her Bible and some time should be able to find the same answer as a scholar with a Bible and a hundred books written by man ?

The point I'm making is that we have to accept the Bible especially the KJV and very accurate Dutch and OLD Afrikaans Bible is good enough for us.
Our forefathers came with only those and understood the will of the Father.

Remember the Bereans ACTS 17;10 who searched the scriptures daily to see if it was true.?
That tells us that the scriptures( OT) alone were good enough for them, and they were called ' noble" because of this.The Bible backs itself up without the aid of any other material.

That is why Ivan Pannin, the link I gavein another post, has done his Bible numerics in the KJV, and found that the Bible is perfect as is, and Divinely inspired.
please read it first for yourself.

All that other info is very interesting but i don't trust any of it for certain as i know of the Jesuit aim to deceive us as they are just hand puppets for Satan.

I mean no disrespect but we MUST KNOW that the Bible can stand alone.
Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 17:11
Bee777.

Would you restrict God and only allow God to speak through the Bible, especially if you are well aware of the fact that the Torah was corrupted in Babilon by the Jewish priesthood.

Maybe it is high time that we "free" the image of God from the bondages and restrictions placed upon It by the Jewish priesthood whose father (according to Jesus) was Satan.

I say this with the greatest respect to God and because of my respect for God.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
18th November 2008, 17:21
Bee777.

Would you restrict God and only allow God to speak through the Bible, especially if you are well aware of the fact that the Torah was corrupted in Babilon by the Jewish priesthood.

Maybe it is high time that we "free" the image of God from the bondages and restrictions placed upon It by the Jewish priesthood whose father (according to Jesus) was Satan.

I say this with the greatest respect to God and because of my respect for God.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

No we know that God uses the Holy Spirit to speak to us as well as prophets, but if you want His complete work, the Bible has it all.

I know the Torah was corrupted that is why i do not understand why you study from it?
it would be the same as I use some NIV translation which has also been corrupted.

My point is whatever you read, compare and test it to the Bible KJV to see if it is true, as Satan is SUBTLE and even he transforms himself into an angel of light.
Remember he takes the truth and then swings it 1 degree to mimic the truth.

The only way i have found my info and symbolic meanings is thanks to the Holy spirit, not by reading other works of men. Afterwards I might go look and see what other humans have found and see if it fits scripturally or not, and with my initial teaching from the Holy Spirit.

Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
18th November 2008, 18:21
No we know that God uses the Holy Spirit to speak to us as well as prophets, but if you want His complete work, the Bible has it all.

Blessings
Bee777

You are absolute correct in your statement, namely: "The Bible has it all."

The Bible reflects the message of the Prophets as well as the message of the Jewish priesthood, whose father is Satan.

The question is: "How do you distinguish?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

PaulA
18th November 2008, 20:39
Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:


Die woord van God is.


Deur die Heilige Gees geïnspireer is.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.


'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.


'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

God's name is always used to justify beliefs. Look at the Christians. Look at the Moslems.

Paul

PaulA
18th November 2008, 20:58
Hi Ou man,
I know through my studies that creation in the KJV is perfect it is just our inability to decipher that is flawed. Ivan Pannin's work proves that it is nothing less than God inspired, have you read his work ?

I do not understand what you mean by Babylon ?
I know God had two creations, one singular Adamic line and another plural, males and females, whom He also called Adam, being ruddy.
Satan has his own creation known as the tree of knowledge which is non ruddy/white.
That is why God said " there will be enmity between your ( Satan ) seed and her ( eve/god seed) god did create the Babylonians and told them to multiply and subdue the earth, whilst He took Adam and put him in the garden, two separate actions.
The Babylonians ( later known as the gentiles), however, they thought they themselves were gods and thus built the tower of Babel, the origin of mythology etc

If you break it down for me I will show you what i have found and start reading here (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/What%20happened%20in%20Eden%20%3F)and HERE (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/IDENTIFYING%20THE%20BIBLE%27S%20CREATIONS) as it also gives some insight.

blessings in the truth of Christ
Bee777

There was no 'creation' as you see it. Man has evolved. It didn't happen in an instant. We weren't created in our 'Father's' likeness.

Bee777
19th November 2008, 08:30
There was no 'creation' as you see it. Man has evolved. It didn't happen in an instant. We weren't created in our 'Father's' likeness.

Hi Paul, just a question, are you an evolutionist or perhaps a humanist ?

Ge 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Blessings
Bee777

Die Ou Man
19th November 2008, 09:44
Ge 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Blessings
Bee777

Bee777.

According to this verse the image of God is male and female.

It makes sense to me.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Bee777
19th November 2008, 16:15
Bee777.

According to this verse the image of God is male and female.

It makes sense to me.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Hi, yes and also man, man is a descriptive word coming from the same word as Adam , meaning to be red and ruddy, show blood through the skin = Caucasian:biggrin:

As explained here (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/IDENTIFYING%20THE%20BIBLE%27S%20CREATIONS)

Blessings
Bee777

PaulA
25th November 2008, 19:51
Hi Paul, just a question, are you an evolutionist or perhaps a humanist ?

Blessings
Bee777

Hi Bee! To categorize myself would merely limit my thinking. But to partially answer your question, I think that it's pretty clear that evolution did occur.

Are you someone who takes the word of the Bible literally, or is your view perhaps that if one takes away literal interpretation then many existing theories in man's understanding of the universe are not in contradiction with it? Or am I missing your point completely?

Kind regards!

Bee777
26th November 2008, 10:09
Hi Bee! To categorize myself would merely limit my thinking. But to partially answer your question, I think that it's pretty clear that evolution did occur.

Are you someone who takes the word of the Bible literally, or is your view perhaps that if one takes away literal interpretation then many existing theories in man's understanding of the universe are not in contradiction with it? Or am I missing your point completely?

Kind regards!

LOL, I've been pondering if I take the Bible literally or not.
How I see it, everything happened in the Bible as it says it did. But.................. I do understand the highly symbolic language of the Bible.
For instance. i do believe that the fall in Eden literally did occur, but............ I do not believe that that they literally ate fruit from an apple tree, that is symbolic language.
See my interpretation HERE (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/What%20happened%20in%20Eden%20%3F)

So I say " I take the Bible logically."

Hope that makes sense ? :wink_2: