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Fulcrum X
20th July 2008, 20:42
Goeienaand Mense,

As iemand dink ek redeneer verkeerd help my asseblief reg!?

n Gevolgtrekking wat ek maak uit "Die koningin van die Suide" onder "Boervolk Teologie" is dit:

Die "vrouw" wat groei namate ons na n republiek verander is simbolies van die R.S.A of die beweging daarna toe (volgens die siener!!). Die tros druiwe wat sy aanbied vir die boervolk is die kennis van Yahweh ens. en die leuen wat tot dusver aan ons verkondig is asook die waarheid waarvan bv. die kerk niks wil hoor nie, of dalk net voorgee dat dit nie die waarheid is nie.

Die waarheid is dan ook eerste deur die boer ontdek wat "die beste onderlę is om die verborgenhede in die boodskap van die Christus te verstaan" soos gestel in "Die Christus en die Waterdraer" deur Die Ou Man onder "Boervolk Teologie".

Dit is egter ons besluit of ons dit wil aanhoor en op die regte pad terug kom.

Kan die Koningin van die Suide waarvan Jesus praat dalk verwys na die Boervolk of dič boere wat die ware boodskap aanvaar en soek na "Salomo se wysheid" of is ek van trand af om so te sę, dalk het ek iets iewers nog nie gelees nie?

Baie Dankie

Die Ou Man
22nd July 2008, 07:55
ƒx.

Die Vrouw wat die tros druiwe aanbied is 'n goddelike Persoon.

Die meisiekind is iemand anders. Sy word fisies gebore en haar persoonlike ontwikkeling staan direk in verband tot die Boer se pad na vryheid. Alle aanduidings dui daarop dat sy reeds gebore is.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Fulcrum X
22nd July 2008, 19:22
Die Ou Man,

Dankie,

Ek was bietjie vinnig om n gevolgtrekking te maak oor daardie een, maar ek is hier om reg gehelp te word.

Bee777
17th November 2008, 15:37
Goeienaand Mense,

As iemand dink ek redeneer verkeerd help my asseblief reg!?

n Gevolgtrekking wat ek maak uit "Die koningin van die Suide" onder "Boervolk Teologie" is dit:

Die "vrouw" wat groei namate ons na n republiek verander is simbolies van die R.S.A of die beweging daarna toe (volgens die siener!!). Die tros druiwe wat sy aanbied vir die boervolk is die kennis van Yahweh ens. en die leuen wat tot dusver aan ons verkondig is asook die waarheid waarvan bv. die kerk niks wil hoor nie, of dalk net voorgee dat dit nie die waarheid is nie.

Die waarheid is dan ook eerste deur die boer ontdek wat "die beste onderlę is om die verborgenhede in die boodskap van die Christus te verstaan" soos gestel in "Die Christus en die Waterdraer" deur Die Ou Man onder "Boervolk Teologie".

Dit is egter ons besluit of ons dit wil aanhoor en op die regte pad terug kom.

Kan die Koningin van die Suide waarvan Jesus praat dalk verwys na die Boervolk of dič boere wat die ware boodskap aanvaar en soek na "Salomo se wysheid" of is ek van trand af om so te sę, dalk het ek iets iewers nog nie gelees nie?

Baie Dankie

Everytime I hear about the woman with fruit I think about my Biblical research, Could it possibly have something to do with it?
The only reason i am saying this is because my Biblical research breaks down the meaning of " fruit" and how this opens up the wrong teachings of the church today, known as the apostate church.
please read HERE (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/Trees%20are%20Nations)
and let me know what you think.

understanding " fruit" and their symbolic meaning opens up the whole Bible on a whole new level.
Blessings
Bee777

Fulcrum X
27th November 2008, 18:39
Good Evening Bee777

First of all I would like to agree with you about symbolism's importance in revealing hidden truths however only to a certain degree. I cannot help but notice that you practically use symbolism to answer all or most of your questions and/or discover hidden truths. I might even go as far as to say that it is probably mostly correct to use this method, however, I do not think that you are correct in saying the bible is the only source we should study from together with a basic Strongs Concordance. I fully respect this motion of yours and I find that you are probably an Intelligent person with very impressive researching and study skills but I would hate for your skills to be wasted on only the bible. There is a tremendous amount of information available to us that suggests the bible had been tampered with and although symbolism unlocks a lot of secrets it might also unlock them in exactly the way the "enemy" want us to interpret it. I would like to ask you the following questions and I would appreciate it greatly if you could answer them in the same order in which I asked them and please answer them according to your own beliefs, not that I think you wont. Thank You

1. Do you agree with all the discussions of Die Ou Man, Stefanus etc. ?

2. If you answer NO to Question 1 please be so kind as to point out to me the most significant differences you have.

3. What is the symbolism behind Blood Rituals and Sacrifices?

4. What is the symbolism behind the cross Jesus was crucified on?

5. What is the symbolism behind the "Oorwinningskruis"?

Bee777
27th November 2008, 19:02
Good Evening Bee777

First of all I would like to agree with you about symbolism's importance in revealing hidden truths however only to a certain degree. I cannot help but notice that you practically use symbolism to answer all or most of your questions and/or discover hidden truths. I might even go as far as to say that it is probably mostly correct to use this method, however, I do not think that you are correct in saying the bible is the only source we should study from together with a basic Strongs Concordance. I fully respect this motion of yours and I find that you are probably an Intelligent person with very impressive researching and study skills but I would hate for your skills to be wasted on only the bible. There is a tremendous amount of information available to us that suggests the bible had been tampered with and although symbolism unlocks a lot of secrets it might also unlock them in exactly the way the "enemy" want us to interpret it. I would like to ask you the following questions and I would appreciate it greatly if you could answer them in the same order in which I asked them and please answer them according to your own beliefs, not that I think you wont. Thank You

1. Do you agree with all the discussions of Die Ou Man, Stefanus etc. ?

2. If you answer NO to Question 1 please be so kind as to point out to me the most significant differences you have.

3. What is the symbolism behind Blood Rituals and Sacrifices?

4. What is the symbolism behind the cross Jesus was crucified on?

5. What is the symbolism behind the "Oorwinningskruis"?

Hi Fulcrum
Firstly I agree, symbolism is not for everything but definitely sed to open up the most controversial " stories"
Imagine with as in the garden of Eden the Bible said it like this ( i presume you have read my interpretation on my Blog)
White people only couple with white people or you will be sent to eternal hell!!!

Well you will be sure this Bible would have been destroyed long ago :smilewinkgrin:

There is a need for symbolism and of course parables are mostly written in symbolism as Jesus said it is not given to all to understand.

OK now for the questions.

1: I do not know which discussion you are referring to but if it is that God did not say anything about blood sacrifices then NO, i don't agree with them, see here (http://www.wendag.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22&page=10) for DOM and I discussion.

2: I will wait for confirmation of 1.

3: I have not found any symbolism behind blood sacrifices, but to be honest i havn't looked. Personally at this stage I believe it is what it is. I do however believe that there are other offerings from the priests, that is the same offering as Cain's

4; Also haven't gone too deep into it, but what i can tell you off the top of my head is that " the cross is actually a Roman Symbol" and even on that Christ overcame for our sins.

5; I'm sorry my Afrikaans isn't so good, so i don't know what you mean by the "oorwiningskruis" I believe that Jesus came to take away the blood sacrifice for sin on the cross and invite the gentiles into salvation. (although the gentile could come in if they believed the i the Israel God, these were mainly wives, soldiers and servant individuals. not on a mass scale as this. Long story for another day)

Look i do not study the symbolism of everything ! it's too much. I have a very specific message and uncover the necessary symbolisms for that message.
You will get what my message is on my Blog. (http://bibleuncovered.blogspot.com/search/label/Cain%20and%20Abel)
In my mind, some things are beneficial to know and some things are just absolutely crucial, those are what I'm concentrating on.

i know we are all part of one body, so my speciality is this and someone else's with be something else. I'll be happy to ad my 2cents wherever possible, but if I don't know I'll say so.

Thanks for corresponding with me as i was losing heart on this forum.:thumbup_1:
Blessings
Bee777

Fulcrum X
27th November 2008, 19:15
hello,

i am working out of town and have to get back on the road, all i can say is please do not lose heart in this forum, if you do you might be losing more than you think in the long run, i will correspond with you as soon as possible with an answer or two,might be tomorrow evening, keep well!

Bee777
27th November 2008, 19:24
Ok Thanks. Waiting for your response
Travel safely
Blessings
Bee777

Bee777
28th November 2008, 09:20
Hi Fulcrum and DOM and all.
I think you guys are misunderstanding me.
I do not think the Bible is the only source of info.
I do however think it is a very concise version and all can be found in it.
Other books written by the Holy Spirit through other people are very helpful for me to understand things that are not my subject. I do however search first and ask the Holy Spirit to point me in the right direction.

Let me tell you what my mission is then maybe you'll get a better understanding of what I'm trying to do.

Today's Christianity is not true Christianity. I'm speaking about our main stream churches here. The apostate church has been set up and it has twisted the word of God to such a degree it actually teaches the opposite to what Christ says. These scribes and Pharisees are leading the sheep astray terribly and selling the mark of the Beast. My aim is to show people what the Bible actually says and not what the Pharisees says it says.

I am speaking to christians here, therefore I am showing in their Bible what is right in front of them as the Bible is being used to mislead them.
My aim is to keep it as simple as possible because the message of Christ is for every man and not just the learned. Or that would make the message null and void.

The aim of Satan is to discard the Bible completely and there will be a time when people won't even read it. ( Remember the two witnesses that lie dead in the street for 3.5 days ? Old and New Testament, or some say Moses ( the law) and Elijah (the prophetic books )

Now I'm afraid that is sooner than we think if we start telling people that all Bibles have been corrupted and cannot be relied on. If we start teaching the Law is corrupted, what do you think will be next? The prophetic books? God says even His elect are deceived, that's us in my opinion.( Judah)
Then what do we have ? nothing..

Just so you know, before I came to Christianity I knew there was a God but who??
There are many, who says this one over that one ? When someone showed me the Ivan Panin Bible Numerics I knew that the God of the Bible was the right one and would therefore have all the answers I seek. And so far so good. I had some crazy questions.
So to tell me that it is not the infallible word of God, I'm sorry I just won't be able to believe it, you'll need to give me something very compelling to read. A scripture here and there won't convince me as i know Satan's tactics well. He takes a scripture from a complete story out of context and starts a whole new doctrine. that is how the apostate church has been set up.

I still have far to go on my Blog but not all involves symbolism. I do however read it in the context of the Biblical language.

I hope you guys now have a better understanding of how my head works and where I'm coming from. I really have a love for the Lord's people and am trying to show them the Truth as I have found it.

Blessings in Christ
Bee777

Fulcrum X
30th November 2008, 20:24
So to tell me that it is not the infallible word of God, I'm sorry I just won't be able to believe it, you'll need to give me something very compelling to read. A scripture here and there won't convince me as i know Satan's tactics well. He takes a scripture from a complete story out of context and starts a whole new doctrine. that is how the apostate church has been set up.


Good Evening Bee,

As you said it yourself "i know Satan's tactics well. He takes a scripture from a complete story out of context and starts a whole new doctrine", this is, according to me, 100% correct, followed by: "that is how the apostate church has been set up" also, according to me, 100% correct. But if you are smart enough to know this then why do you not know that it is the exact reason why the bible is not reliable enough to teach about our Heavenly Father and His reasons and truths, or do you not know that Satan and The Church are the ones who wrote the bible, including your beloved King James Version, if not so then we would still be reading the original papyrus scrolls from the Apostles, someone must have copied the originals to provide enough copies for all of mankind and we all know the church and senate are the ones who make the copies and since you said yourself that the church are part of the problem you also, basically, denied that the bible is reliable enough. If you believe the bible is reliable you also have to believe that the church is 100% correct. So in other words some of your symbolism and beliefs are based on scriptures from the bible that are lies, false prints made by servants of the devil. If you do not believe me then do what you do best, go study the history of the church and the truth behind the death of Jesus, you will find that He was murdered for political reasons which were decided by the ministry of the church, the same church who wrote the bible you so solemnly believe in. NO, I do not want the bible gone, I simply want the old Afrikaans version from 1933 and older, not because it is Afrikaans, but because it is the only bible known to me that still separates JAHWEH, the non-God/JAHWEH satanic blood rituals and cattle sacrifices, and the one and only Creator and Heavenly Father God, my one and only rest and peace together with Jesus and His Mother and Father.

Bee777
1st December 2008, 15:44
Hi Fulcrum
Thank you for your response.
Yes, i do know the apostate church has rewritten the Bible, In the NIV's they have made many disturbing changes.
Please click here for an insightful article (http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=260)

The thing is this. I was brought up basic Christian, in boarding schools my whole life.
When I left and was able to think for myself i looked into other belief systems.
I eventually came to a point of " So many Gods and doctrines, which one is true ?"

The mathematics in Ivan Panin (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin2.htm)sealed it for me. The book is a good read and more informative than the site.
No God would leave us here without the " rules of the game" is my thinking.
Please read Panin!!!
Another Panin Challenge (http://www.thechristianbooks.com/NEWS/n1363.cfm)

Here is a link to a YOUTUBE video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qn3I78Mwi0)



I am not that closed minded though and I would appreciate you sending me some links on how the Bible was corrupted etc.

As i said before , some information is beneficial and some is Crucial.
before i go and spend time going into the " blood sacrifice " route,as I have much of my own research to do and time is short, I would like to know
How does it influence our beliefs today, what difference does it actually make in our lives today?

Thank you for your time.
Blessings
Bee777

Fulcrum X
5th December 2008, 00:43
Hi Fulcrum
Thank you for your response.
Yes, i do know the apostate church has rewritten the Bible, In the NIV's they have made many disturbing changes.
Please click here for an insightful article (http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=260)

The thing is this. I was brought up basic Christian, in boarding schools my whole life.
When I left and was able to think for myself i looked into other belief systems.
I eventually came to a point of " So many Gods and doctrines, which one is true ?"

The mathematics in Ivan Panin (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/panin2.htm)sealed it for me. The book is a good read and more informative than the site.
No God would leave us here without the " rules of the game" is my thinking.

Please read Panin!!!
Another Panin Challenge (http://www.thechristianbooks.com/NEWS/n1363.cfm)

Here is a link to a YOUTUBE video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qn3I78Mwi0)

I am not that closed minded though and I would appreciate you sending me some links on how the Bible was corrupted etc.

As i said before , some information is beneficial and some is Crucial.
before i go and spend time going into the " blood sacrifice " route,as I have much of my own research to do and time is short, I would like to know
How does it influence our beliefs today, what difference does it actually make in our lives today?


Thank you for your time.
Blessings
Bee777

Evening Bee,

In my previous post I mentioned that I am only interested in the older versions (1933 and older) of the bible, because they still separate some of the terms used to name God. The fact that the words in the bible change with every new publication also changes Panin's formula. If the words are no longer the same then the numbers are no longer the same, the flaw in the formula. Panin studied the bible 100 years ago, an already flawed version subjected to change ever since the first scriptures were written and not to forget the fact that "LORD God" was changed from the older bibles to "Lord God" in the newer bibles, something that changes the mathematics behind Panin's theory even more because upper case letters have different meanings than lower case letters in mathematics. But still the fact remains that the bibles available back then were according to me more accurate than they are now. There is of course another interesting fact that basically jumps right up into one's face and even though I have no solid proof of this the one number that we all know is connected with the devil is the number 6/66/666, an interresting fact seeing as how it is supposed to be the word of God, but why give the bible 66 books? Perhaps the only number still worth mentioning as it quite obviously stamps the bible with the influence of satan serving as a warning to me that not all is well inside the book, somewhere something is seriously wrong. All the sevens in the bible neatly wrapped in the 66 of satan. Dont get me wrong, I believe that the truth is in the bible, but, the bible is most definately not the truth. With carefull study one will find 50% of God's truth in the bible, with even more carefull study one will find that God reserved the other 50% of the bible so those with enough vision can also find the truth about the lies told in the bible, do not think for one minute that the devil doesn't know the bible, Old Nick knows the bible better than you and me, and that is exactly why he is using it to mislead us. We are ignorant to believe that the time of the devil's deception through the leaders of the world lay in the future, it has already begun. The church leads the world and the church is rotten. I is heartbreaking to know that they made the Bible rotten with them.

Take a look at this picture:


http://www.wendag.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=17

Note the symbols in the red squares of the picture in the above link are newer versions of Hebrew, meaning they were added after the original has been written. Also note that this is the book of Psalms, the very same Psalms found in all the bibles made off of these scrolls. The truth is in these scrolls but it was corrupted by the re-writer.

My reply on your request for proof of corruption, scroll down until you see the same picture as on the first link, the heading is "Pronouncing the tetragrammaton" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism


I also have some other samples should you require any.


As for Blood Sacrifices and Rituals, how do they not affect our beliefs today, they are after all gifts to Satan so what are they doing in the bible as offerings to God?

Bee777
5th December 2008, 10:13
Hi fulcrum
i hear what you are saying.


Panin studied the bible 100 years ago, an already flawed version subjected to change ever since the first scriptures were written and not to forget the fact that "LORD God" was changed from the older bibles to "Lord God" in the newer bibles, something that changes the mathematics behind Panin's theory even more because upper case letters have different meanings than lower case letters in mathematics

No, that is incorrect though.
Lower case VS upper case letters do not have a different numerical values.
On one of the links I gave you a re challenge to prove Panin wrong was reissued and no luck so far.

I do know some words have been changed, The KJV gives you a glossary in the back of what words have been changed. But something Divine has happened that even with these small changes the Numerics still stand.

Thank you for all the links I will look into them.
The fact that I have found things in the Bible that Satan does not want us to know ( as his main aim is for us to accept his seed, therefore committing the sin unto death/Mark of the Beast) and I can prove it Biblically through and through As we can see in the Churches that is his main aim and he is succeeding but hasn't managed to remove it from the KJV, but yes, he has removed it from the NIV in many places. ( I won't touch a NIV for study purposes and proof )This tells me Satan doesn't have so much influence in the KJV.
So all he has do do know is make the KJV null and void and then He would have succeeded in removing the sin unto death altogether. Do you see that scenario??

Satan has two basic aims. Stop them from believing in Jesus Christ as saviour and two, if they do, sell them the mark of the beast the sin unto death which is the same as the fall in Eden. simple, but he has many ploys to accomplish these two aims.


As for Blood Sacrifices and Rituals, how do they not affect our beliefs today, they are after all gifts to Satan so what are they doing in the bible as offerings to God?

Ok so we don't do this any more so by going into deep debates about it is falling for another of Satan's tricks to keep our minds busy and off the first two aims he has for us, as mentioned above and also causing dissension between brothers and sisters in Christ.
That's the way I see it ?

Blessings
Bee777

Fulcrum X
18th December 2008, 21:07
Hello Bee,

I mentioned in my last post that uppercase and lowercase letters have different values, sorry, you are correct, when it comes to the value of a letter it does not change the numeric value, I was thinking of the value when used in formulas.

I did however make an interesting discovery regarding numeric values of words used in common writings and also in the Islamic Quran. Tell me, you are not Islamic are you? It turns out that their "Bible" is also "divinely" inspired. According to the numeric values in their bible Allah is the creator of heaven and earth and the seas and their "holy" numbers also jump up everywhere in the Quran. You are quite right, Ivan Panin made no mistake with his numeric investigations, they are all accurate, however it does not prove that the bible is divinely inspired, only that there are numeric patterns. Ask yourself this, who invented math, algebra, who discovered it first, why are there still secrets to how the Egyptians built all their great pyramids? where did they learn all of the precise mathematical calculations used to build the pyramyds? Can you truly say that people back then were unable to work out numeric values for words and letters? Or are you going to believe the Quran also because it is devinely inspired? Moreover there are even common storybooks with numeric patterns. From my own point of view, any sentence without some kind of numeric value or structure would make no sense, the tenses, grammar, spelling would all be incorrect. Words need a certain amout of vowels and consonants to be words and the amount of vowels/consonats deternine the numeric value. I am not saying that this is about language classes, I am only saying that numerics determine a certain order of letters or vice versa.

Here is but one link where you can see some interesting facts about numerics in the Quran, I am certain that with some time for google you would find much more, I did.

http://www.islamicteachings.org/forum/islam-science/a-numeric-miracle-of-the-quran-t616.html


As I took a long time to reply to this post, I am not certain if I will speak to you again before Christmas, may you have a blessed one.

Bee777
6th January 2009, 21:04
Hi Fulcrum
I trust you had a Blessed holiday and if you went away are home safely.

I know rthere is some sorte of a numerical pattern in the quran but it is nothing involved to the Bible one.
The Quran is just counting words etc
i have heard of another numerical formula in the quran and all the numbers are equal to 9
as the Bible is equal to 7. ( personally i have not been able to see and test it)

We all know that 7 is the God of the Bible's number as His cycles run in sevens and then to find out that 7 is also the underlying numerical formula to back it up.
To me that proves to be divinely inspired as i have yet to meet a human who is able to do this.
I am however aware that Satan will also want and be able to duplicate God as He always does but 7 won't work for him.

I agree with you there is no way the Egyptians build the Pyramid of Giza ( there is nothing special about the other two) It seems it is evidence left for a time before us as stated in
Ecclesiastes 1:10
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Again giza also has a mathematical formula to it. I think you would be interested in reading the work of Adam Rutherford on this subject (http://books.google.co.za/books?id=YWFbp2mIofgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Adam+rutherford+Pyramid&ei=gqRjScTUJIjiNODvmKYK&client=firefox-a), it is highly mathematical and looks like it's right up our alley. This is the only link I could find with a preview if you find it interesting i'll look for some more info for you.


From my own point of view, any sentence without some kind of numeric value or structure would make no sense, the tenses, grammar, spelling would all be incorrect.

exactly ! But the Bible makes sense, it works !


the amount of vowels/consonats deternine the numeric value.

That is not true.

I think we are heading in the same direction but don't know it yet.:thinkerg:

Blessings
Bee

Fulcrum X
22nd January 2009, 16:24
Hello Bee,

Just one question please, I am not wandering away from the topic I just want to ask you something before I reply on your latest post.

Who do you believe Yahweh is? Do you believe he is God of Heaven and Earth, or do you believe he is a Tribal God of Judah? Or if neither of the two, who do you believe he is?

Thanx

Bee777
22nd January 2009, 16:44
Hi fulcrum
the way I understand it is that when the Bible speaks of GOD/ Elohim, it is referring to the triune, being The Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
the reason i say this is because in Gen 1:26 God/Elohim refers to themselves as " us."

The Lord God is Yahweh, and we all know that the lord God is Jesus.
I'm sure i don't need to quote scripture for that ?

So Elohim/Yahweh are part of the same God, God of creation, God of man. God of Israel, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

This I have noticed has caused much confusion amongst people as they cannot see the different names for the separate entities within the God head, so to speak.

All three created and then the Lord God/ Jesus/yahweh took over.
you will notice that when Jesus walked in the flesh He never ever addressed " Lord God " as it was Him, but Father.

I hope that clears up your question.
Blessings

Fulcrum X
23rd January 2009, 15:08
Hello,

I would like to know where you came to the conclusion that Jesus/Lord God/Yahweh is the same person as the name "Yahweh" means "Bedouin Warlord" and neither Jesus nor God Almighty nor The Farther were Bedouin Warlords.

Bee777
23rd January 2009, 15:24
Hi
here we go.
definition of Lord in Strongs

H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.

i see no bedoin god's here, ols show me.

now for scripture.


1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Mt 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.


Mt 17:4
Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here:


Mr 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh 13:25
He then lying on * Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it ?

there are many, many more scriptures where Jesus claims to be " Lord God," just type into your online corcordance " Jesus is Lord" and they'll all pop up.

Blessings

Fulcrum X
23rd January 2009, 16:59
Hello Again,


El, god of Israel --Yahweh, god of Judah
By
L. M. Barré (http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/AncientIsrael/cv.html)
Due to a failure to distinguish between myth and history, biblical interpreters have implicitly accepted the view that Elism was an old form of Yahwism because the Elohist (Ex 3:13-15) and the Priestly Writer (Ex 6:2-3) declared it so. Actually, but a moment’s reflection will show that El and Yahweh are not the same god. It is easily demonstrated that Yahwism and Elism were distinct religions, differing in more ways than they were alike.

The earliest Yahwistic traditions reveal that Yahweh was a bedouin war god from the deserts of Edom and of the surrounding regions. His essentially warlike characteristics are demonstated by his name, by cultic celebrations of his mighty deeds, and by his ark.

With regard to the Tetragrammaton,I think that the the strongest interpretation of the name regards "Yahweh" as an abbreviation of his official, longer name, "Yahweh Sabaoth." It means, "he musters armies." Yahweh's name identifies this god as primarily the military commander of his people.

In Ex 15:3, Yahweh’s name itself is defined in terms of war:

Yahweh is a warrior
Yahweh is his NAME

The cultic celebration of Yahweh from the Song of Deborah also portrays him as a warrior:

Yahweh, when you set out from Seir
As you trod the land of Edom,
Earth shook, the heavens quaked,
The clouds dissolved into water.
The mountains melted before Yahweh,

Before Yahweh, the god of Israel.This dramatic description portrays Yahweh as a warrior on the move, whose might is so great that earth shakes at his step, the heavens quake, and the mountains melt before his march.

Yahweh’s ark also was strongly associated with warfare. It was thought that Yahweh was seated upon this moveable platform and that from here he led his troops to and from battle as he did against Jericho. So we find the formulaic saying in Num 10:35-36:
And as the ark set out Moses would say,
"Arise, O Yahweh, may your enemies be scattered
and those who hate you to run
for their lives before you!"

And as it came to rest, he would say,
"Return, O Yahweh
to the thronging armies of Israel."

Bee777
23rd January 2009, 17:24
Hi Fulcrum




The earliest Yahwistic traditions reveal that Yahweh was a bedouin war god from the deserts of Edom and of the surrounding regions

Where does the Bible say YHWH was a bedoin god ?

Listen we know the God of the Bible as a whole is a war God, the Bible is full of stories about this. Also Lord of HOSTS ( army) This earth is one big battleground as I have posted somewhere else in a letter and on my blog. We know that Armageddon will be the largest war ever seen brought on by the God of the Bible. I have no problem with that Jesus Himself said He came not to bring peace but the sword !

Ok so this brings me to wonder. Did you think that Jesus and the God of the Bible were all just about peace ?

By the way, do you know anything about Gematria? (http://members.cox.net/8thday/gematria.html)
This is the best example I could find online, but it also works in English

Blessings

Fulcrum X
26th January 2009, 13:32
Hello Bee,

Indeed Jesus and God are not only seekers of peace, but my argument is not an argument of peace and war, it is merely to prove to you that Yahweh and Jesus are two separate beings. Yahweh walked the earth long before Jesus was born, he had been here with the Ark, he had been here with the fall of Jericho, he waged war against those who opposed his children and let them retake their lands whenever his children lost their faith in him while on the contrary Jesus and God only waged war in order to bring word of the truth. Yahweh(LORD GOD) , God and Jesus all waged wars but for different reasons. God and Jesus waged war so that we may know the truth. Yahweh waged war so that his children may receive the conquered land as payment for their faithfulness in him only to take the land away from them when their faith dwindled.

Bee777
26th January 2009, 13:55
Hi Fulcrum

God and Jesus all waged wars but for different reasons. God and Jesus waged war so that we may know the truth. Yahweh waged war so that his children may receive the conquered land as payment for their faithfulness in him only to take the land away from them when their faith dwindled.

Indeed this is true and that is the God we serve, we South Africans can attest to serving this God YHWH. Look at what has happened to us, exactly as He said it will happen it has! But YHWH/ Lord Jesus will restore again when we as a nation get down on our knees and repent for what we have done, He will fight with us to restore things as they should be for once and for all. AMEN !!!


Indeed Jesus and God are not only seekers of peace, but my argument is not an argument of peace and war, it is merely to prove to you that Yahweh and Jesus are two separate beings.

I'm sorry but you will not be able to prove this to me as the evidence proving that Jesus is Lord/ YHWH is far stronger to support the fact that they are one in the same.

Do you realise that by trying to prove Lord. YHWH is separate from the God and Jesus of the Bible you will in essence be doing what the end days apostate church is trying to do cancel out the law( Moses) and the Prophets ( Elijah) as all these were given by YHWH.

Tell me who do you see as Elohim, as YHWH and Elohim are used together ?

Blessings in the truth of Jesus