PDA

View Full Version : Priester van On



Die Ou Man
3rd June 2009, 18:52
http://www.wendag.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=507

Die Egiptiese priester van On se invloed op die hedendaagse godsdiens behoort onder oŽnskou geneem te word.

Die vader van die Joodse Torah (Pentateug) is Moses. Moses word beskou as een van die belangrikse figure in die Ou Testament (Tenakh) en het sy opvoeding en opleiding as Egiptiese prins aan die voete van die priester van On deurloop.

Die Hebreeuse verbintenis met die priester van On strek egter veel verder. Die Israelities/Egiptiese nageslag van Josef, (Manasse en Efraim) is direkte afstammelinge van die priester van On. Die Priester van On was hulle oupa en 'n baie belangrike figuur in antieke Egipte.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Die Ou Man
3rd June 2009, 19:21
Ons is algar bekend met die verhaal van Josef. Na vele terugslae en ontberinge, word Josef deur Farao as sy gevolmagtigde aangestel.


41 Verder het Farao vir Josef gesÍ: Kyk, ek stel jou aan oor die hele Egipteland.

42 Toe trek Farao sy seŽlring van sy hand af en sit dit aan die hand van Josef; en hy het hom fyn linneklere laat aantrek en die goue ketting om sy hals gehang

43 en hom laat ry op sy tweede rytuig; en hulle het voor hom uitgeroep: Pas op! So het hy hom dan oor die hele Egipteland aangestel.

44 En Farao sÍ vir Josef: Ek is Farao, maar sonder jou mag niemand sy hand of voet in die hele Egipteland verroer nie.

45 En Farao het Josef genoem SŠfenat-Panťag en aan hom Ńsenat, die dogter van Potifťra, die priester van On, as vrou gegee. En Josef het uitgetrek oor Egipteland. Genesis 41


Zaphenath-paneah: a Hebrew transcription of an Egyptian name meaning "the god speaks and he (the new-born child) lives."

Asenath: means "belonging to (the Egyptian goddess) Neith."

Potiphera: means "he whom Ra (the Egyptian god) gave";

Heliopolis: in Hebrew, On, a city seven miles northeast of modern Cairo, site of the chief temple of the sun god; it is mentioned also in Genesis 41:50; 46:20; Ezekiel 30:17. Bron (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis41.htm)

Nou wonder hierdie Boer in welke godsdiens en tempel Josef en Ńsenat getrou het. Wie sou die priester wees wat die seremonie voltrek het?

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Die Ou Man
4th June 2009, 16:44
Josef en Ńsenat verwek twee kleinseuns vir die Priester van On.


50 En vir Josef is twee seuns gebore -- voordat die jaar van hongersnood gekom het -- wat Ńsenat, die dogter van Potifťra, die priester van On, vir hom gebaar het.

51 En Josef het die eersgeborene Manasse genoem; want, het hy gesÍ, God het my al my moeite laat vergeet en ook die hele huis van my vader.

52 En die tweede het hy Efraim genoem; want, het hy gesÍ, God het my vrugbaar gemaak in die land van my ellende. Genesis 41


********


20 En vir Josef is in Egipteland gebore Manasse en Efraim wat Ńsenat, die dogter van Potifťra, die priester van On, vir hom gebaar het. Genesis 46

Dit sal interessant wees om te weet of Manasse en Efraim opgevoed is in die Egiptiese wysbegeerte en godsdiens van hulle oupa, soos Moses lank na hulle.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Harmonie
15th June 2009, 19:58
Is dit moontlik dat God vir Josef weggesteek het in die "vyand" se kamp?
Miskien sodat hy kon weet hoe die 'vyand' dink en doen?
Moses self moes ook daar grootword, sodat hy sy volk onder die slawerny kon uitlei.

As ons weet hoe die vyand opereer, is dit makliker om hom te oorwin. (Met God se hulp natuurlik)

Word die Boerevolk nie ook maar nou 'weggesteek' tussen die vyand nie? Dis ook nodig om te weet hoe hulle die land bestuur, en hoe hulle koppe werk.En met die vyand se ek nie noodwendig die swartes nie. Dit gaan dieper as dit.

Ek dink ons leiers sal ook goeie kennis he van die regte vyand, dalk omdat hulle daar tussen hulle opgelei was, maar deur God se genade beskerm was tot hulle hul doel op aarde kan bereik.

Jammer as die pos nie 100% relevant is nie

Die Ou Man
15th June 2009, 20:26
Moses self moes ook daar grootword, sodat hy sy volk onder die slawerny kon uitlei.

Harmonie.

Die Christus moes ook na Egipte vlug om tyd daar deur te bring.

Met sy terugkeer na sy geboorteland as Tiener, was die mense stomgeslaan oor sy kennis.

Dit lyk of almal wat 'n groot invloed op ons geloof gehad het, eers 'n draai in Egipte moes maak.

Liefde groete.

Die Ou Man

Harmonie
15th June 2009, 20:43
Die Christus moes ook na Egipte vlug om tyd daar deur te bring.

Met sy terugkeer na sy geboorteland as Tiener, was die mense stomgeslaan oor sy kennis.



Dis baie ineteressant wat jy hier se. Wat sou almal in Egipte leer? Ek het nog altyd die idee dat die okkult in Egipte begin het (o.a.Magick).

Sonaanbidding, afgod aanbidding, en baie ander dinge is in Egipte beoefen. Wat sou Jesus daar geleer het waaroor mense so verstom was?

Ek sal graag hoor wat jou kennis hiervan is. Was Egipte net sleg?

Die Ou Man
15th June 2009, 20:50
Wat sou almal in Egipte leer?



... Gnosis....


So is vervul wat die Here deur 'n profeet gesÍ het: "Uit Egipte het Ek my Seun geroep."

Harmonie
15th June 2009, 21:01
... Gnosis....


So is vervul wat die Here deur 'n profeet gesÍ het: "Uit Egipte het Ek my Seun geroep."

Ek weet nie veel van die Gnosis af nie. Ek sal kyk daarna.

Willekat
2nd December 2009, 18:41
Dag

Dis nou baie toevallig dat ek die draad lees. Ek het juis nou onlangs afgekom op inligting aangaande dieslfde Josef en sy twee seuns... Britanje en Amerika.

Hier is dit: ekstrak vanaf bandmateriaal van Dr. WesleyASwift 6-10-54 te Amerika gedurende n preek.

...Now, among the people who constitute the Israel in this Book, remember that it was the House of Joseph which would father Anglo-Saxondom, with the ultimate promise that they would be a great nation and a company of nations. The covenant God made with Anglo-Saxondom, this House of Joseph, which is America and the British Empire, which today would represent the strength of Anglo-Saxondom, the scriptures would clearly profess that they would carry the true name of real Israel. And they would be the symbol of His Kingdom at the climax of the hour. And against these nations would come the attack of the forces of evil in the climax of this age...



...for we have today, the Egyptian record of your stay in Egypt. And copies of the Egyptian records were given to the British Museum by the Egyptians in the reign of Queen Victoria. And what do these records tell you? They say that as you came out of Egypt, thru the Red Sea, that Pharaoh, who tried to follow, was drowned in the waters of the Red Sea when he tried to pursue you.

Now, some will say--but I donít believe this happened; I donít believe that Moses had the power to divide the Red Sea. Well, then tell me why the Egyptians who were your traditional enemies, would report that the body of the Pharaoh who died, was taken from the waters of the Red Sea as the waters came together and that they then took his body back into Egypt. Why would they give this report to the British Museum if it did not happen? The Bible tells the story and we have the conformation from the history of the enemy that this biblical record is true...

So ja hulle is dus nie net die nageslag van Josef nie, maar ook die van die priester van ON. Hierdie 2 seuns van Josef was geliefd deur God. Hy het n besondere plekkie gehad vir hulle. So ek dink Josef was sterk betrokke by die grootmaak en geloof van sy 2 seuns. Josef was ook n groot man in Egipte en as hy oor sy seuns gevoel het soos ek oor myne, het hy seker ook heel duidelik die priester laat verstaan dat hy n ander Vader het as die priester van On. Wie weet of hy nie dalk ook dieselfde God as Josef aanbid het nie - wie weet? Hoe dit ookal sy. Baie van die goed is maar vreemd vir ons. Daai Egiptenare het baie gode gehad.


Kat

Willekat
2nd December 2009, 18:52
Dag weereens

Die ou man - wat het die priester van On nou met die wit boek in gemeen. Ek het nog glad nie die wit boek gelees nie en kan dus nie weet nie, maar ek kom agter dat daar tog n konneksie moet wees as jy dit onder heirdie afdeling van die wit boek geplaas het.

Kat

Die Ou Man
4th December 2009, 00:43
Dag weereens

Die ou man - wat het die priester van On nou met die wit boek in gemeen. Ek het nog glad nie die wit boek gelees nie en kan dus nie weet nie, maar ek kom agter dat daar tog n konneksie moet wees as jy dit onder heirdie afdeling van die wit boek geplaas het.

Kat

Soos wat die Christendom se wortels diep in die gebruike van ons heidense voorvaders lÍ, is die wortels van die nuwe geloof wat Moses gebring het, diep gesetel in die leringe van die Priester van On aan wie se voete hy geleer het.


Handelinge 7.

20 In diť tyd is Moses gebore, en hy was wonderlik mooi. Drie maande lank is hy in die huis van sy vader versorg;

21 en toe hy weggegooi is, het Farao se dogter hom opgeneem en hom as haar seun grootgemaak.

22 En Moses is opgelei in al die wysheid van die Egiptenaars en was magtig in woorde en dade.

leerling
8th December 2009, 17:18
Goeiemiddag,

Ek soek nog na skrywes en het hierdie een in Wikipedia gekry oor die vaders van die woestyn waar dit dan ook eindig met: Vader Moses.

The Desert Fathers were Hermits, Ascetics and Monks who lived mainly in the Scetes desert of Egypt, beginning around the third century. They were the first Christian hermits, who abandoned the cities of the pagan world to live in solitude. These original desert hermits were Christians fleeing the chaos and persecution of the Roman Empire's Crisis of the Third Century. They were men who did not believe in letting themselves be passively guided and ruled by a decadent state. Christians were often scapegoated during these times of unrest, and near the end of the century, the Diocletianic Persecution was more severe and systematic. In Egypt, refugee communities formed at the edges of population centers, far enough away to be safe from Imperial scrutiny.
In 313, when Christianity was made legal in Egypt by Diocletian's successor Constantin, a trickle of individuals, many of them young men, continued to live in these marginal areas. The solitude of these places attracted them because the privations of the desert were a means of learning stoic self-discipline. Such self-discipline was modelled after the examples of Jesus' fasting in the desert and of his cousin John the Baptist (himself a desert hermit). These individuals believed that desert life would teach them to eschew the things of this world and allow them to follow God's call in a more deliberate and individual way.
Thus, during the fourth century, the empty areas around Egyptian cities continued to attract others from the world over, wishing to live in solitude. As the lifestyle developed, these men and women developed a reputation for holiness and wisdom. In its early form, each hermit followed more or less an individual spiritual program, perhaps learning some basic practices from other monks, but developing them into their own unique (and sometimes highly idiosyncratic) practice. Later monks, notably Anthony the Great, Pachomius and Shenouda the Archimandrite, developed a more regularized approach to desert life, and introduced some aspects of community living (especially common prayer and meals) that would eventually develop into cenobitic monasticism. Many individuals who spent part of their lives in the Egyptian desert went on to become important figures in the Church and society of the fourth and fifth century, among them Athanasius of Alexandria, John Chrysostom, and John Cassian. Through the work of the John Cassian and Augustine of Hippo the spirituality of the desert fathers, emphasizing an ascent to God through periods of purgation and illumination that led to unity with the Divine, deeply affected the spirituality of the Western Church and the Eastern Church. For this reason, the writings and spirituality of the desert fathers are still of interest to many people today.
No Christian state
Even after Christianity became a legal religion of the Roman Empire in 313, the fact that the Emperor could now be a Christian and that the world was coming to know Christianity and the Cross as a sign of temporal power only strengthened the hermits' resolve. For the hermits there was really no such thing as a "Christian" state. They doubted the fact the religion and politics could ever be mixed to such an extent as to produce a fully Christian society. For them the only Christian society was spiritual and extra-mundane.
Primacy of love
In the sayings of the Desert Fathers, there was insistence on the primacy of love over everything else in spiritual life, over knowledge, gnosis, asceticism, contemplation, solitude, prayer. Without love the exercises of the spirit lose all meaning. Their idea of love was not sentiment but spiritual identification with one's brother; taking one's neighbor as one's self. The full difficulty and magnitude of the task of loving others is recognized everywhere and never minimized. They understood that it is very hard to love others in the full sense of the word and that it involved a kind of death of their own being.
Purity of heart
The basic principle of the Desert Life was that God is the Authority and that apart from His manifest will there are few or no principles. St. Anthony said,. "therefore whatever you see your soul to desire according to God, do that thing, and you shall keep your heart safe." The Desert life started out with a clean break from the world. A life continued in compunction which taught the monk to lament the attachment to unreal values. The Desert Fathers lived a life of solitude, labour, poverty, fasting, charity and prayer. This purging allowed for the emergence of the true secret self in which the believer and Christ were "one spirit." The end of all striving was purity of heart which culminated in a clear unobstructed vision of the true state of affairs and an intuitive grasp of one's inner reality anchored in God.
Some Sayings of the Desert Fathers
One of the Elders, "It is not because of evil thoughts that we are condemned, but only because we make use of these evil thoughts."
Abbot Pastor, "If someone does evil to you, you should do good to him, so that by your good work you may drive out his malice."
An Elder, "A man who keeps death before his eyes will at all times overcome his cowardliness."
Blessed Macarius said, "This is the truth, if a monk regards contempt a praise, poverty as riches, and hunger as a feast, he will never die."
Abba Moses, "Sit in thy cell and thy cell will teach thee all."

Groete en aangename dag.

Die Ou Man
28th September 2010, 16:42
http://www.wendag.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=490
Amenemopet


Die Wysheid van Amenemopet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_of_Amenemope) is ca 1300Ė1075 vC in Egipte deur die Egiptiese skrifgeleerde Amenemope seun van Kanakht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenemope_%28author%29) opgestel.

Die ooreenkoms tussen die Egiptiese Wysheid van Amenemopet en die Hebreeuse Spreuke van Salomo is opvallend. Daar word geredelik aanvaar dat die Bybelboek Spreuke put uit die Wysheid van Amenemopet.


By the 1960s there was a virtual consensus among scholars in support of the priority of Amenemope and its influence on Proverbs. For example, John A. Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Wilson_%28Egyptologist%29) declared in the mid-20th century: "We believe that there is a direct connection between these two pieces of wisdom literature, and that Amen-em-Opet was the ancestor text. The secondary nature of the Hebrew seems established."

Many study Bibles and commentaries followed suit, including the Jerusalem Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible), introductions to the Old Testament by Pfeiffer and Eissfeldt, and others. The translators of the Catholic New American Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Bible), reflecting and extending this agreement, even went so far as to emend the obscure Hebrew text of Proverbs 22:19 (traditionally translated as "I have made known to you this day, even to you") to read "I make known to you the words of Amen-em-Ope." Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_of_Amenemope)

Die Ou Man
28th September 2010, 17:01
Book of Proverbs |
Wisdom of Amenemopet

"Incline thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, And apply thine heart to my doctrine; For it is pleasant if thou keep them in thy belly, that they may be established together upon thy lips" (22:17-18) | "Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue" (ch. 1)

"Rob not the poor, for he is poor, neither oppress (or crush) the lowly in the gate." (22:22) |"Beware of robbing the poor, and oppressing the afflicted." (ch. 2)

"Do not befriend the man of anger, Nor go with a wrathful man, Lest thou learn his ways and take a snare for thy soul." (22:24-5) | "Associate not with a passionate man, Nor approach him for conversation; Leap not to cleave to such an one; That terror carry thee not away." (ch. 10)

"[if you] You see a man quick in his work, before kings will he stand, before cravens, he will not stand." (22:29) | "A scribe who is skillful in his business findeth worthy to be a courtier" (ch. 30)

"When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, Consider diligently what is before thee; And put a knife to thy throat, If thou be a man given to appetite. Be not desirous of his dainties, for they are breads of falsehood." (23:1) | "Eat not bread in the presence of a ruler, And lunge not forward(?) with thy mouth before a governor(?). When thou art replenished with that to which thou has no right, It is only a delight to thy spittle. Look upon the dish that is before thee, And let that (alone) supply thy need." (ch. 23)

"Toil not to become rich, And cease from dishonest gain; For wealth maketh to itself wings, Like an eagle that flieth heavenwards" (23:4-5) | "Toil not after riches; If stolen goods are brought to thee, they remain not over night with thee. They have made themselves wings like geese. And have flown into the heavens." (ch. 7)

"Speak not in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the wisdom of thy words" (14:7) | "Empty not thine inmost soul to everyone, nor spoil (thereby) thine influence" (ch. 21)

"Remove not the widows landmark; And enter not into the field of the fatherless." (23:10) | "Remove not the landmark from the bounds of the field...and violate not the widows boundary" (ch. 6)

"Apply thine heart unto instruction and thine ears to the words of knowledge" (23:12) | "Give thine ears, hear the words that are said, give thine heart to interpret them." (ch. 1)