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Stefanus
28th October 2009, 21:43
Reincarnation

Introduction

"Plato professed to know that other civilizations such as Atlantis existed. Maybe he was having an imaginary vision or maybe he was speaking from former knowledge of those times. I'm not sure what the difference is. Possibly imagination is a form of memory. Most of our great thinkers have professed to have had an intuition or guidance that they couldn't describe, something they ultimately called a force of God or a higher recognition of truth that required a quantum leap of inspired faith.

As Carlyle put it, 'The unfathomable SOMEWHAT which is not WE.' Or as Matthew Arnold said, the 'not ourselves' which is in us and all around us." (Dancing in the Light, Bantam)

These were wise words spoken by a man I admired and loved, my Dad. I believe he was right: imagination is a form of memory. We may not consciously bring old knowledge with us into new lives, but sometimes it seems to seep through into our present experience. In this physical form, I have searched for my truth in this arena. I have discovered knowledge of other physical lives, relationships that felt as if they had been in place forever and foreign soils that felt like home.

When I walked across Spain on the pilgrimage called the Santiago de Compostela Camino, I encountered myself in a former life. I discovered a part of me that lead to a greater understanding of myself. I also realized the karmic importance of some of the people that have been close to me in this existence.

These realizations, and numerous others, have helped, inspired and added to my whole being. They have assisted in my better understanding myself and those around me. It doesn't matter if this type of realization is imagination or if it is memory. It is a truth that I have experienced on some level, in some form of reality and I embrace it as a gift from the Divine.

Three quarters of the Earth's people believe they have lived before and will live again; thereby enabling their Soul's journey a continuous learning experience.

Stories abound regarding how people find each other again - for good or otherwise. Come and share some of your stories on theEncounter Board as I will share what I am learning also.

Stefanus
28th October 2009, 21:49
Reincarnation

The Words Of Others


From the Egyptians to the Greeks, to the Buddhists and the Hindus, the soul was considered a pre-existent entity which took up residence in a succession of bodies, becoming incarnate for a period, then spending time in the astral form as a disembodied spirit, but reincarnating time and time again. Each religion had its own belief that the soul existed as a part of man and was immortal. Somewhere between Judaism and Christianity, the west lost the ancient concept of reincarnation.

The world has always had inspirational leaders in a variety of fields of expertise. Many, such as, Aristotle, Leonardo di Vinci, Dante, Shakespeare, Benjamin Franklin and even General George Patton, were avid believers in reincarnation and spoke or wrote of their stance on the soul's immortality and life after death. Unfortunately, most of these writings are little known and somewhat difficult to locate. Because of the important content, I would like to share a few of them here, with you.

Henry David Thoreau wrote in "Letters":
"I lived in Judea eighteen hundred years ago, but I never knew that there was such a one as Christ among my contemporaries."

Albert Einstein wrote in "The World As I See It":
"I maintain that cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest incitement to scientific research."

Walt Whitman, in "Song of Myself", wrote:
"And as to you, Life, I reckon you are the leaving of many deaths, (No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before.)"

Thomas A. Edison wrote in "The Diary and Sundry Observations":
"I cannot believe for a moment that life in the first instance originated on this insignificant little ball which we call earth... The particles which combined to evolve living creatures on this planet of ours probably came from some other body elsewhere in the universe."

Ralph Waldo Emerson, nominalist and realist, wrote:
"It is the secret of the world that all things subsist and do not die, but only retire a little from site and afterward return again... Jesus is not dead; he is very well alive; nor John, nor Paul, nor Mahomet, nor Aristotle; at times we believe we have seen them all, and could easily tell the names under which they go."

Carl Gustav Jung, considered the founder of analytical psychology initially avoided addressing the possibility of reincarnation. Later in life he began his exploration and wrote:

"This concept of rebirth necessarily implies the continuity of personality. Here the human personality is regarded as continuous and accessible to memory, so that, when one is incarnated or born, one is able, at least potentially, to remember that one has lived through previous existences, and that these existences were one's own, i.e., that they had the same ego form as the present life. As a rule, reincarnation means rebirth in a human body."

"What happens after death is so unspeakably glorious that our imagination and our feelings do not suffice to form even an appropriate conception of it... The dissolution of our time-bound form in eternity brings no loss of meaning."

Marcus Tillius Cicero, (106 B.C. - 43 B.C.) is, to this day, considered the master of ancient Roman literary and oratory style. Cicero, an active Roman politician, is also considered one of the great philosophers of that time. In his composition, "On Old Age", he writes:

"The soul is of heavenly origin, forced down from its home in the highest, and, so to speak, buried in earth, a place quite opposed to its divine nature and its immortality..."

"It is again a strong proof of men knowing most things before birth, that when mere children they grasp innumerable facts with such speed as to show that they are not then taking them in for the first time, but remembering or recalling them."

Julius Caesar, a contemporary of Cicero's, concluded that the Celts were fearless warriors due to their belief in reincarnation. Caesar wrote:

"They wish to inculcate this as one of their leading tenets, that souls do not become extinct, but pass after death from one body to another..."

William James, renowned American psychologist and philosopher, delivered a significant science-based lecture, called "Human Immortality", at Harvard, in 1893. He later expanded his concepts to specifically include reincarnation. On this he wrote:

"... I am the same personal being who in old times upon the earth had those experiences."

Thomas H. Huxley wrote in "Essays Upon Some Controverted Questions":
"I am certain that I have been here as I am now a thousand times before, and I hope to return a thousand times."

Francis Bowen wrote in "Christian Metempsychosis":
"Why should it be thought incredible that the same soul should inhabit in succession an indefinite number of moral bodies? Even during this one life our bodies are perpetually changing, through a process of decay and restoration; which is so gradual that it escapes our notice. Every human being thus dwells successively in many bodies, even during one short life."

leerling
1st November 2009, 18:15
Goeienaand Stefanus,

Baie dankie vir al jou bydraes met soveel wyd verspreide inligting. Ek het meer van myself vertel met my aanmelding.

Ek hoop jy sal my dalk kan help met die volgende>

Reinkarnasie -
Ek het nie ‘n idee WAT om daarvan te dink nie.
Inteendeel – dit het net nog vrae by my laat opkom (Sien voorbeelde onder)
Dalk kan jy meer inligting gee oor soortgelyke/ teenoorgestelde skrywes in die bybel wat ek kan lees en hopelik meer van sal kan verstaan?

Skrywes, wat ek nog nie verstaan nie, soos -

oor Henog, in die ou testament –
Gen. 5 vers 24 = en Henog het met God gewandel; en hy was daar nie meer nie, want God het hom weggeneem.. ( Wat het van hom geword? Is hy nou ‘n gees –op aarde? In die hemel?
of het sy vleeslike liggaam dadelik verander na ‘n geestelike liggaam? ****** (Geeste van God)En is hy by ons Vader in die hemel ( dis nou as sy liggaam vleeslik, verander het in ‘n geestelike vorm - Soos geskryf deur Paulus in I Kor. 15 verse 44, 51 en 52 …….. en ons sal verander word. )

en in die nuwe testatement waar Jesus die stelling maak van dat as Hy iemand in die lewe wil hou, het dit niks met die mens te doen nie –
Johannes 21 vers 22 – Jesus antwoord hom: As ek wil he dat hy bly totdat Ek kom, wat gaan dit jou aan? Is daar ‘n suggestie van mense wat alreeds “ewig lewe “

Dan ook - --gesien in die lig van en m.b.t. God se ewige koningkryk – ****** (Is daar ‘n pos waar ek my vrae oor hierdie onderwerp kan rig?)

bestaan daar alreeds “ewige” mense – of anders gestel - as die liggaam sterf – en die gees en/of siel (is dit een of twee – en wat is die verskil?) bly lewe – en word weer “gebore/opgewek” of weggeneem/opgeneem vanaf die aarde – deur God (is daar ‘n verwantskap as ons kyk na:

wat ook in die bybel staan: nl: dat dit wat was, is, en sal weer wees, en God soek weer op wat verbygegaan het. Pred. 3 vers 15

en ook - waar Jesus se dat elke skrifgeleerde wat ‘n leerling geword het in die koninkryk van die hemele, soos ‘n huisheer is wat uit sy skat nuwe en ou dinge te voorskyn bring. Matt. 13 vers 52.

(Is daar dalk alreeds iets op jul forum waar ek meer oor hierdie onderwerp kan lees of waar ek my vrae daaroor kan rig?) ******
Baie dankie by voorbaat.

:confused:

Die Ou Man
1st November 2009, 19:48
Leerling.

Ek gaan dinge vooruitloop en aanhaal uit 'n manuskrip getiteld: Die Onbekende God.

Dalk lees jy iets daarin.


Die kerkklok tel die ure af. Dit herinner my aan die deeltydse koster wat in Middelstraat 17 gewoon het. Die trotse lenige Tobie wat al om die halfuur oorgestap het om die klok te lui. Hy het van Oudtshoorn na Kirkwood verhuis om daar af te tree. Tydens huisbesoek het hy en dokter Weich, die predikant van Calitzdorp, die Bybel op die voorstoep bestudeer. Dit het hom ontstel dat die Bybel teenstrydighede bevat, maar tog was hy ‘n onverbiddelike protestant. Hy het sy kinders uit die geselskap gestuur wanneer sy Hollandse skoonmoeder oor geestelike sake praat. Sy kon in die fynste besonderhede vertel van haar vorige lewe. Sy het selfs haar begrafnis as jong meisie beskryf. Tobie het hierdie praatjies as heksery beskou. Sy het haar egter nie laat koudsit nie en dan aan die etenstafel verder vertel, wetende dat Tobie nie die kinders sal uitstuur nie.

Die Hollandse ouma se getuienis is nie ‘n al te vreemde verskynsel nie. Baie van ons mense dra kennis van die sensasie van: "Ek was al hier,” of “dit het reeds gebeur”. Deja vous gebeur veral in die kinderjare. Dit dui op die aanwesigheid van ‘n geheue buite die huidige bestaan. In die geval van die Hollandse ouma, was daardie geheue baie sterk aanwesig. Dit herinner my aan die Christus wat gesê het dat Elia wat weer gebore is as Johannes die Doper.

Want al die profete en die wet het tot op Johannes geprofeteer. En as julle dit wil aanneem: hy is Elía wat sou kom. Wie ore het om te hoor, laat hom hoor.

In die tyd van Jesus se wandel op aarde was dit algemeen aanvaar dat persone uit die geskiedenis weer gebore kon word.

En toe Jesus in die streke van Cesaréa-Filippi kom, vra Hy sy dissipels en sê: Wie sê die mense dat Ek, die Seun van die mens, is? En hulle antwoord: Sommige Johannes die Doper, en sommige Elía, en ander Jeremia of een van die profete.

Miskien was ou Tobie te haastig om die Hollandse ouma se herinnering uit haar vorige lewe as heksery af te maak.

Ek draai terug na die Hoofstraat en wonder of Johannes die Doper enigiets kon onthou van Elía se lewe. Hy sou seker in die geskrifte gelees het van Elía se onderonsie met Isébel. Elía het gevlug nadat hy ‘n boodskap van Isébel ontvang het dat sy hom om die lewe gaan bring. Dit was pas nadat Elía nie bang was om vierhonderd-en-vyftig profete van Baäl met ‘n swaard om die lewe te bring nie. Isébel het nou wel nie daarin kon slaag om Elía te vermoor nie, maar ek wonder of sy hom nie na sy volgende lewe gevolg het nie. Dit was Heródias, die vrou van koning Herodes, wat die kop van Johannes die Doper ge-eis het.

leerling
1st November 2009, 21:14
Dankie baie, dit het meer gehelp as wat u kon dink. Ek sal graag ook meer wil weet van die boek Rigters- Hoekom was daar geen koning of iemand Soos Moses en Josua nie? Ek het gelees van bv. Debora en Barak. As ek reg onthou het die rigters na vore gekom terwyl die volk baie afvallig was en elkeen - soort van- sy eie kop gevolg het. Help asb as ek die kat aan die stert beet het.!! Dan vind ek ook die deutero-kanonieke boeke geweldig interresant. Is u bekend met die boek van Judit. Ook Makkabeers het vele vrae by my opgewek. Indien u belangstel? Op ,n nuwe draad - of kan ek maar hier aangaan?

Die Ou Man
1st November 2009, 21:31
Leerling gaan gerus voort.

Jy vang my onkant met die diepte van jou belesenheid.

Dalk is jy 'n leermeester in die gedaante van leerling???

Stefanus
1st November 2009, 23:02
Hello leerling,

ONS IS SPIRITUELE WESENS WAT ‘N MENSLIKE ERVARING HET, NIE MENSLIKE WESENS WAT ‘N SPIRITUELE ERVARING HET NIE.

Reïnkarnasie berus in prinsiep op twee beginsels - karma en vrye keuse. Karma omvat die lesse wat jy in ʼn vorige lewe nie bemeester het nie, terwyl jou vrye wil jou die keuse bied om self te besluit in hoeverre jy die geleenthede tot spirituele groei in dié lewe wil benut.

'n Mens se gees word nie onmiddellik ná jou dood weer in 'n volgende liggaam gebore nie, wanneer dit wel gebeur kan ‘n lang (aardse) tyd reeds verloop het. Hierdie nuwe geboorte vind altyd weer in die vorm van 'n mens plaas, en 'n mens kan dus nie as 'n dier of selfs 'n insek gebore word soos sommige ander voorstanders van reïnkarnasie glo nie.

Die Ewige Hel - ingebring deur Jerome in die 4de eeu. Voor dit het die ou Kerkvaders die doktrine van Universele Saligheid geken. Hiervolgens sou alle siele eendag met God verenig word. Dit het ook saamgeval met die doktrine van reïnkarnasie wat deel was van Christenskap voor die 4de eeu. Na Jerome, het hierdie verwysings in die briewe van die Kerkvaders verdwyn. Vandag word reïnkarnasie bestempel as deel van een of ander lawwe Oosterse geloof.
Die feit is dat dit deel was van die Kerk beleid tot en met 553NC. Toe het die Rade van die Kerk finaal besluit om hierdie doktrine totaal te verban en verbied.
Gedurende die tyd toe Jesus die volgende volgens Matteus gesê het was reïnkarnasie algemeen aanvaar deur die gemeenskap en het nie enige vêrdere vertolking vereis nie:



Want al die profete en die wet het tot op Johannes geprofeteer.
En as julle dit wil aanneem: hy is Elía wat sou kom.
Wie ore het om te hoor, laat hom hoor.
Mat 11:13 - 15



"oor Henog, in die ou testament – "“


Volgens Johannes het niemand nog ooit in die vlees opgevaar na die Hemel nie, reïnkarnasie is ook nie die opvaar van 'n persoon in die vlees nie, reïnkarnasie is die terugkeer van 'n geestelike wese as 'n vleeslike wese.



As Ek julle van die aardse dinge vertel en julle nie glo nie, hoe sal julle glo as Ek julle van die hemelse vertel?
En niemand het opgevaar in die hemel nie, behalwe Hy wat uit die hemel neergedaal het, naamlik die Seun van die mens wat in die hemel is.
Joh 3:12-13



Is daar ‘n suggestie van mense wat alreeds “ewig lewe “


Nie in die vleeslike liggaam nie maar wel as gees, soos elkeen van ons wat van bo gebore is – geesteswesens met ‘n menslike ervaring. Na die aardse/vleeslike dood gaan ons terug om as geesteswesens ons lewe voort te sit.


as die liggaam sterf – en die gees en/of siel (is dit een of twee – en wat is die verskil?) bly lewe – en word weer “gebore/opgewek” of weggeneem/opgeneem vanaf die aarde


Die gees is die werklike "jy" die siel is jou liggaam se "lewenskrag", jou "verstand" daarom kan 'n persoon bestaan uit slegs liggaam en siel.

Die woord “siel” word in die Nuwe Afrikaanse Bybel soms vertaal as “lewe”, soos in Matteus 16:26: “Wat sal dit ’n mens help as hy die hele wêreld as wins verkry maar sy lewe verloor, of wat sal ’n mens gee in ruil vir sy lewe?”

Net so kry ons mense wat bestaan uit vlees en siel. Hulle is nie van bo gebore nie.

En ons kry mense wat bestaan uit vlees, siel en gees. Hulle is die Adamiete want hulle is van bo gebore. Die Witboek is slegs vir hierdie wesens geskryf.

Lees gerus Gees, Siel en Liggaam (http://www.wendag.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84)



Jou storms en onstuimigheid
word telepaties aan my oorgedra.
In hierdie malmens plek word dit
nie verstaan nie, en te veel vra word gevra.

Hoe word verduidelik dat ek nie
een van hulle is, ek die vrye wese,
teen my wil, een van hulle moes word.

Deur jou rusteloosheid en nooit
stil wees, kom ek die ‘malle' ook nie tot rus,
word ek kalm soos jy met nuwe maan
juig almal en gil “sy is genees”.

Tot jy weer met donder se gedruis
na my toe kom, dan word ek gebind,
my vry siel vas gekeer.

Hulle sê “sy’s met die maan gepla,”
maan in al sy vorms het niks met my te maak,
ek die skone meermin het nie gevra om
deur reïnkarnasie die las van mens se vorm te dra.

Net ek ek jy, o grote see ken die waarheid.


Skoppensvrou

Liefdegroete,
Stefanus

leerling
2nd November 2009, 13:29
As Ek julle van die aardse dinge vertel en julle nie glo nie, hoe sal julle glo as Ek julle van die hemelse vertel?
En niemand het opgevaar in die hemel nie, behalwe Hy wat uit die hemel neergedaal het, naamlik die Seun van die mens wat in die hemel is.
Joh 3:12-13

Dalk een van die "dinge" waar Jesus gepraat het in Luk. 11 v 29 tot 32 - en ek verwys spesifiek na die woorde in verse 31 en 32 van ........... en meer as Salomo is hier! en dan weer ...... en meer as Jona is hier!

Albei eindig ook dan met uitroep tekens!!!!!!

Dit is die .....en meer ....... en meer wat my gedagtes besighou. Wat behels die .... en meer? en dan verwys Jesus na mense!!! wat my die vraag laat vra - Wie en wie en wie en wie dalk nog???????

Is hier - teenswoordige tyd - alhoewel Hy na die oordeelsdag in die toekoms verwys?

Groete.

leerling
2nd November 2009, 13:51
Goeiemiddag ook aan Mnr. Die ou Man,

U kan my glo as ek se dat ek 'n totale leek is wanneer dit by die bybel en die letterlike of figuurlike opneem/aanneming van die geskrewe woord kom!!!!! (O ja, en dan is daar die dinge wat geestelik geinterpreteer moet word ook nog) Dit is juis waarom ek besluit het om dit te lees en te kyk hoekom daar soveel verskillende kerke in ons land alleen, bestaan, as daar net een boek is - wat ALMAL gebruik.

En hoe meer ek gelees het, hoe meer vrae het ekself begin vra - en hier aangesluit het met die vertroue dat ek saam met die "gemeenskap" op hierdie forum, die antwoorde gaan kry.

Iets wat ek opgemerk het in die bybel - is veral die gesindheid wat daar teenoor - vroue - bestaan het. Daarom het ek gaan soek na gedeeltes waar vrouens/dames/koninginne/diensmaagde ens. betrokke was - en dan probeer ek nou vasstel hoekom/wanneer/waar - was daar melding gemaak van hierdie vroue.

Nog 'n vraag - as die volk grotendeels deur mans gelei was, waarom hierdie "uitsonderings" van nie eens 'n handjievol vrouens? Is daar iets wat dieselfde was met elkeen van hierdie uitgesonderde vrouens - of het hulle iets gedoen (miskien lewens styl) om dit te verdien? of was daar 'n ander rede?

Groete.

leerling
2nd November 2009, 14:08
Goeiemiddag weer Mnr. Die ou Man,

Om terug te kom na die reinkarnasie, ewige lewe ens. - en geestelike en vleeslike dele van ons as mens. Ek verwys dan ook weer na die deutero-kanonieke boek Tobias - en die engel Rafael.

Hoe moet ek 'n engel verstaan? Geestelik en defnitief nie vleeslik - maar hy/sy het ook nie dieselfde gees wat ons as mens van ons Vader ontvang het nie?

Nou vra ek dan ook: Hoeveel geeste bestaan daar? Ek het gelees van die 7 geeste van God.
Volgende vraag: As ons as mens 1 Gees het - die engele het 1 - wie het die ander 5 - en as die Heilige Gees wat Jesus vir ons gelos het as Trooster/Vertrooster/Leerder van die waarheid, en van Jesus ens. - interpreteer ek dit as dat die Heilige Gees 'n spesifieke "eienskap/eienskappe" van ons Vader - verteenwoordig - ???? Kort ons as mens nog "Gees" voor ons heilig en volmaak soos Jesus kan/gaan word.

Ek glo u volg my trant van denke en kan dalk help asb.

Tobias 13 verse 16 tot 18 het my ook laat wonder of hy al die boek openbaring gelees het? Dit het my laat dink aan Openb. 21 se beskrywing van die nuwe hemel en die nuwe aarde. Verse 18 tot 21 in Openbaring.

Groete.

Groete.

leerling
3rd November 2009, 15:35
Goeiemiddag,

Met verwysing na Pred. 3 vers 15 ... wat was, is en sal weer wees......... en ook Matt. 13 vers 52 ..... ou en nuwe dinge .... het ek tot dusver gekry:

Gen. 19 vers 5: En hulle het na Lot geroep en aan hom gese: Waar is die manne wat vannag na jou gekm het? Bring hulle na ons toe uit, dat ons hulle kan beken.

Sodom is verwoes.

Rigters 19 vers 22: Terwyl hulle hul hart vrolik maak, omsingel die manne van die stad, slegte manne, meteens die huis en klop hard an die deur: en hulle spreek met die ou man, die eienaar van die huis, en se: "Bring die man uit wat in jou huis ingekom het, dat ons hom kan beken.

Hoofstuk 20 - Die stam van Benjamin word byna uitgeroei.


Kan u dalk help met die verskil in jare of tydperk wat hierdie 2 gebeurtenisse plaasgevind het en ook of daar nog sulke ooreenstemmende gebeure is waarvan ek nog nie gelees het nie.

By voorbaat dank.

Groete.

Die Ou Man
3rd November 2009, 16:18
Daniel 12:13

En jy, gaan heen na die einde; en jy sal rus en weer opstaan tot jou bestemming aan die einde van die dae.

leerling
5th November 2009, 14:14
Ek het die onbekende woord (vir my) orakel gaan opsoek.
Wat ,n verrassing toe ek ons eie Siener se naam - met ,n mooi positiewe gebruik ook daar kry. http://pagancouncil.co.za/node/132 Groete en aangename dag.

leerling
5th November 2009, 21:12
Hallo Stefanus,

Skuus ek pla jou so baie, maar dit is juis al die baie inligting op hierdie werf "wat my gelok" het om hier aan te sluit en dan net te hoop dat julle my gaan "verdra" met al my onkunde. Kan jy my dalk meer detail gee oor hierdie gedeelte van jou:

ONS IS SPIRITUELE WESENS WAT ‘N MENSLIKE ERVARING HET, NIE MENSLIKE WESENS WAT ‘N SPIRITUELE ERVARING HET NIE.

Reïnkarnasie berus in prinsiep op twee beginsels - karma en vrye keuse. Karma omvat die lesse wat jy in ʼn vorige lewe nie bemeester het nie, terwyl jou vrye wil jou die keuse bied om self te besluit in hoeverre jy die geleenthede tot spirituele groei in dié lewe wil benut.

Ek probeer verstaan wat die verskil is tussen reinkarnasie en wedergeboorte.

Ek sukkel ook nog met die "quotes" ens. So weereens, baie dankie.

Groete en aangename nagrus.

Stefanus
5th November 2009, 22:34
ONS IS SPIRITUELE WESENS WAT ‘N MENSLIKE ERVARING HET, NIE MENSLIKE WESENS WAT ‘N SPIRITUELE ERVARING HET NIE.

Reïnkarnasie berus in prinsiep op twee beginsels - karma en vrye keuse. Karma omvat die lesse wat jy in ʼn vorige lewe nie bemeester het nie, terwyl jou vrye wil jou die keuse bied om self te besluit in hoeverre jy die geleenthede tot spirituele groei in dié lewe wil benut.

Ek probeer verstaan wat die verskil is tussen reinkarnasie en wedergeboorte.



Hello leerling,

Reïnkarnasie en weergeboorte is sinoniem met mekaar en het niks met die kerklike siening van oorgaan van heiden na gelowige te doen nie, ek as kind van ons Hemelse Ouers hoef nie een of ander magiese gebeurtenis te ondergaan om as kind gesien te word nie. Vir sommige van ons is ons hier in 'n leerproses, vir ander om 'n spesifieke taak te verrig.

In die boek van Henog raak die skrywer aan die onstaan van al die geeste, die geboorte van elkeen van ons, van die grondlegging is al die name in die boek van die lewe opgeskryf, was hul manier om oor te vertel dat elkeen van ons reeds lank terug as geestewesens (SPIRITUELE WESENS) gebore was en dat ons vleeslike geboorte slegs 'n reïnkarnasie oftewel 'n wedergeboorte in die vlees is.

Daar is twee redes vir reïnkarnasie of om wedergeboorte te word en dit is wanneer jy nog erfsonde het om te betaal of 'n spesifieke taak het om te verrig wat net jy kan uitvoer.

Die Bybel is uitdruklik daaroor dat geen kind vir die sondes van die vaders gestraf sal word nie maar daar word wel gewys dat elkeen van ons tot in die derde en vierde geslag vir ons sondes verantwoording moet doen, sonder reïnkarnasie of om weergebore te word is dit dan ook nie moontlik nie. Hierdie leerproses word deur middel van reïnkarnasie gedoen.

Karma is basies die prinsiep van wat jy saai sal jy maai, so veroorsaak jy jou eie erfsondes wat jy in volgende of huidiglike lewe moet regmaak/terugbetaal, hierdie is die leerproses wat ons moet deurgaan, geniet die reis.

Liefdegroete,
Stefanus

Schuch
13th November 2009, 17:46
Reincarnation is the re-birth of the soul, and is based on your karma, right? Then, where do all the new souls come from? I can accept that the soul has to be tested for worthiness before entering heaven, or the equivalent thereof. Just cannot figure out where the 'new' souls who start their journey come from.

Stefanus
15th November 2009, 20:13
Reincarnation is the re-birth of the soul, and is based on your karma, right? Then, where do all the new souls come from? I can accept that the soul has to be tested for worthiness before entering heaven, or the equivalent thereof. Just cannot figure out where the 'new' souls who start their journey come from.

From the testimony of Scripture, in which God is spoken of as the author and Creator of the soul in a peculiar manner distinct from the body: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecc. 12:7). Here a manifest difference is marked between the origin and the destruction of the body and the soul. The one is said to return to the dust (whence it was taken); the other, however, to return unto God (who gave it). Therefore since the body returns thither whence it had its origin, so also the soul. This is more clearly confirmed by the fact that God is said to "give the spirit", but not the body. For he is not the creator of the body.

The scope, the words and circumstances of the text prove that it treats of the ordinary birth and destruction of men. Accordingly their bodies return to the dust (i.e., to the earth) whence they were taken, while their spirits return unto God.

"The word of the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1).

"We have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb. 12:9).
And Peter calls him in a peculiar manner a "faithful Creator of souls" (I Pet. 4:19).
In Num. 16:22, God is called 'the God of the spirits of all flesh.' So too Is. 57:16: "For I will not contend forever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.'

Now why should God be called "the Father of spirits" in contradistinction to "the fathers of the flesh", unless the origin of each was different?

Liefdegroete,
Stefanus

Stefanus
15th November 2009, 20:32
Reincarnation of our soul - rebirth

Talking about reincarnation or rebirth is automatically talking about the life cycles of the human soul: Long time ago, our souls left their divine origin to gain some experiences in the material world. It was clear from the very beginning that the souls would eventually return back to their divine origin, however. Therefore all our souls have the strong desire to return back to where they originally came from, respectively to their original divine state.

A return to the divine origin will only be possible when the souls have reached a state of wholeness again similar to the above mentioned divine state. Concretely, this state is about personality traits, which are best described with unconditional love, (self-) honesty, happiness, modesty, humbleness, etc. Alternatively, you can describe this divine state with respecting the basic rights of existence.

Through our living in the material world (previous incarnations), the above mentioned traits have been at least partially unlearned and replaced with striving for power and prestige, financial wealth and selfishness. After the death of a human being in the material world, the soul scrutinizes whether it has reached its divine state again. If not all of the above mentioned traits have been acquired or with other words, if the basic rights of existence were not fully respected, then this stage has not (yet) been reached. Most likely, the soul will decide sooner or later to reincarnate (rebirth) on the Earth to continue its education. That is because those traits which have been unlearned in the material world (on the Earth) can also most efficiently be retrained in the material world.

Our living on Earth can therefore be described as a training camp to regain personality traits like unconditional love, self honesty, happiness, modesty and humbleness (see also our text about the development of human beings). Family, friends, acquaintances and „coincidental" encounters are our training partners for the souls on their way back to the divine origin.

An incarnation must not be looked at as punishment for mistakes or vile actions in earlier incarnations. From the view of the soul, each incarnation is a new chance to get closer to its return back to the divine state of origin. The soul always incarnates voluntarily. Souls who heavily surrendered to striving for power, greed and selfishness may indeed decide to reincarnate in a real trouble spot and to live under worst conditions. This is solely to physically and emotionally sense the effects of power, greed and selfishness from other beings. It happens of the soul's free will and hoping that the impression of these bad experiences will finally lead to developing the desired traits in successive incarnations.

One good tip for us

Don't see anything wrong in our past, use the present we got to set up the best future, future intended for our next newborn life.

Schuch
16th November 2009, 08:03
Thanks for the answer Stephanus, much obliged. Are there any Biblibal texts to support re-incarnation? I read the one you put up about being reborn, but are there any other texts to support this theory? If all is previously ordained, do we really have free will and can we neutralise karma? Kinda lika a short cut, or is that spiritual laziness?

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:13
Thanks for the answer Stephanus, much obliged. Are there any Biblibal texts to support re-incarnation? I read the one you put up about being reborn, but are there any other texts to support this theory? If all is previously ordained, do we really have free will and can we neutralise karma? Kinda lika a short cut, or is that spiritual laziness?


Reincarnation is the rebirth of a person's spirit into a new body to be born again as an infant. Resurrection is the "spiritual awakening" of a living person's spirit by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Christians are usually very surprised to learn that reincarnation was a doctrine once held by many early Christians. Not only that, as you will soon see there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible of Jesus himself teaching it. More Biblical evidence can be found in Herbert Puryear's outstanding book entitled Why Jesus Taught Reincarnation and Dr. Quincy Howe, Jr.'s excellent book entitled Reincarnation for the Christian.

The Book of Ecclesiastes
In the following allegory that it is found through diverse verses of the Book of Ecclesiastes, also called The Preacher and whose writing is attributed to King Solomon, son of David, by the use of the figure of the flow of the rivers to the sea back and forth to describe the incessant come and go of human life, it's a clear reference to the continuous reincarnation and disembody of the spirits. He even refers to the veil that causes us not to remember previous lives. And once again, he refers to reincarnation calling it restoration in the original text (requireth in KJV).


All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full;
unto the place from whence the rivers come,
thither they return again.

The thing that hath been it is that which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done;
and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is any thing whereof it may be said;
See, this is new?
It hath been already of old time,
which was before us.

There is no remembrance of former things;
neither shall there be any remembrance
of things that are to come with those
that should come after.
Ecclesiastes 1:7,9,10,11

That which hath been is now:
and that which is to be hath already been;
and God requireth that which is past.
Ecclesiastes 3:15

Then, the biblical writer clarifies that "resurrection " will be through birth, an concept that Jesus affirms in John 3.


Shall I bring to the birth
and not cause to bring forth?
saith the Lord;

shall I cause to bring forth
and shut the womb?
saith thy God.

And when ye see this,
your heart shall rejoice,
and your bones shall flourish
like an herb.
Isaiah 66:9,14

Reincarnation and the Hebrew Religion

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about the Pharisees being believers in reincarnation. The Pharisees were the Jewish sect which Paul belonged to before his NDE and conversion to Christianity. Josephus wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."

From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.

When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist. And even Jesus affirmed to his disciples that John the Baptist was indeed the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught people about the true resurrection - a spiritual rebirth within a living person. Thus, when Jesus stated that he was the resurrection and the life, he was teaching them a radical new principle. It was a rebirth of the spirit - not into a new body - as when we are born from our mother's womb - but a rebirth of our spirit within the body we now inhabit. Jesus was distinguishing between what was already believed in those days concerning the afterlife and a new teaching concerning a spiritual change within us that can lead to liberation. He was making a distinction between "the resurrection of the body" (returning to life from physical death) and "the resurrection of the spirit" (returning to life from spiritual death). As you will soon see, this confusion concerning Jesus teachings is documented in John 3 when Jesus had to explain to Nicodemus the difference between physical rebirth and spiritual rebirth.

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:15
Reincarnation and Early Christianity

The first great Father of the early orthodox Church was Origen (A.D. 185-254) who was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. Origen was an ardent defender of pre-existence and reincarnation. Pre-existence is the religious concept of the soul as not being created at birth; rather the soul existed before birth in heaven or in a past life on Earth. Origen taught that pre-existence is found in Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus.

Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria who was a disciple of the apostle Peter. Clement and Origen wrote about receiving secret teachings of Jesus handed down from the apostles. One of these secret teachings was the concept of physical and spiritual rebirth. The existence of secret teachings and mysteries from Jesus is recorded in the Bible. Here are some of them:


He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)

The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.


"If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it, let him be anathema [excommunicated]." - Decree of the Fifth Catholic Council declaring reincarnation to be heresy

But on December, 1945, writings containing many of these secrets of early Christianity were unearthed in upper Egypt. This area was one of the the main locations where Christians fled to when the Romans invaded Israel. It was here that these secrets were continued to be taught. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these writings of the secret teachings belonged to a early sect of Christians called Gnostics and these writings ranked in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered two years later. These so-called secret teachings concerning life and death are strikingly similar to what we know about near-death experiences.

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:17
Reincarnation and the Secret Teachings of Jesus

There are many Bible verses that affirm the reality of reincarnation.

The episode in the Bible where Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet is one of the clearest statements which Jesus made concerning reincarnation.


For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)

In the above passage, Jesus clearly identifies John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet. Later in Matthew's gospel Jesus reiterates it.


And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

In very explicit language, Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah. Even the disciples of Jesus understood what Jesus was saying. This identification of John to be the reincarnation of Elijah is very important when it comes to Bible prophecy. By identifying the John with Elijah, Jesus identified himself as the Messiah. The Hebrew scriptures mentions specific signs that would precede the coming of the Messiah. One of them is that Elijah will return first.

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)

This is one of the major Messianic promises from God that is found in the Bible. And these John is Elijah references clearly demonstrate the reality of reincarnation. So there are two important conclusions we can draw from this:

The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah.
Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
Based on these conclusions alone, either (1) or (2) must be true:


John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...
John was not Elijah reincarnated which means that Elijah himself did not return. And if this is true then either (1) or (2) listed below is true:



Malachi's prophecy concerning Elijah's return to life before the coming of the Messiah failed to happen. This would mean that God does not keep his promise and that the Bible is fallible. OR...
Jesus was not the Messiah.

Based on all the logic presented thus far, only one of the following conclusions is true:
Reincarnation is a reality OR...
Jesus was not the Messiah OR...
Bible prophecies are not reliable.

There is no way around this logic. Only one of the above options can be true. And because Jesus' declaration that John is Elijah is overt and direct, then the only option that can be logically true is (Reincarnation is a reality).

After the beheading of John, Jesus took a few of his disciples to the top of a mountain and transfigured into a Being of Light. On the mountain with them as Elijah and Moses.


After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus ...

As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what "rising from the dead" meant.
And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things."
"Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?"

"But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him." (Mark 9:9-13)

The passage above describes the disciples seeing the spirit of Elijah and wondering again about Elijah's role. Jesus again identifies John to be the reincarnation of Elijah.

The description of Jesus shining with light as the sun and clothes as white as the light is remarkably similar to descriptions of Jesus in many near-death accounts. This transfiguration of Jesus event in the Bible is just one of many events in the Bible that corresponds with near-death experiences.

Another point to make is that the appearance of Elijah and Moses in spirit with Jesus refutes the concept of people sleeping in graves until the last day. In other words, it refutes the concept of resurrection.

Skeptics of reincarnation like to quote the following Bible verse in an effort to refute Jesus' clear teaching of the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist.


And he [John the Baptist] will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah. (Luke 1:17)

Skeptics claim that the above Bible verse affirms John to be merely a prophet who performed the same ministry as Elijah - not that John was actually the reincarnation of Elijah. But this is not what the verse actually says. In fact, the verse gives a perfect definition of reincarnation: the return of a person's spirit and power into another body. It is the spirit and power that reincarnates. Therefore this verse clearly states that John the Baptist had the spirit and power of Elijah. And this is exactly what reincarnation means. It does not get much clearer than this.

Although John carried the living spirit of Elijah he did not carry his conscious mind and memory. Reincarnation involves only the higher consciousness of the spirit. Because John did not have the conscious mind and past-life memories of Elijah, John denied being Elijah. With very few exceptions, nobody has a conscious memory of past lives. The following is the Bible passage that shows John denying that he is Elijah.

They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."

Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"

John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, "Make straight the way for the Lord.""

Now some Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"

"I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." (John 1:21-27)

Notice that the Pharisees questioning John were expecting the reincarnation of an Old Testament prophet. And John did not refute the concept of reincarnation when he stated his ignorance about having a past life as Elijah. But Jesus was not ignorant about John. Jesus knew better and said so in the plainest words possible:


This is the one ... there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist ... And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. (Matt. 11:11-15)

Jesus revealed John to be Elijah; but John denied it. Which of the two people are right - Jesus or John? The answer should be very clear. John's denial of his own past identity as Elijah does not mean he did not have a past life as Elijah. This is especially true when Jesus claimed that John was indeed Elijah.

The following is another Bible passage which describes other people who believed John to be Elijah or some other prophet:


Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life. (Luke 9:7-8)

Perhaps it was the appearance of Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration that led some to believe that John was still alive even after he was killed by Herod. This would also explain the rumor going around then that Elijah was raised from the dead.

Even when we compare the physical description of John with Elijah we find a striking similarity.


John the Baptist: John's clothes were made of camel's hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. (Matt. 3:4)


Elijah the prophet: He was a man with a garment of hair and with a leather belt around his waist. (2 Kings 1:8)

The similarity between John and Elijah should not be dismissed as a coincidence. Believers of the concept of reincarnation know that personality traits can be passed on from one life to the next - even though conscious memories are not passed along.

Another interesting parallel between John and Elijah has to do with karma. The Bible describes how Elijah had the priests of Baal killed with the sword because their sacrifice failed to catch fire whereas his did. Here are the two Bible verses that describe it:


"Then Elijah commanded them, "Seize the prophets of Baal. Don't let anyone get away!" They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there." (1 Kings 18:40)

"Now Ahab told Jezebel everything Elijah had done and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword." (1 Kings 19:1)

Having all the priests of Baal beheaded seems like an incredible injustice on Elijah's part. This may explain why Elijah had to pay the karmic debt for this injustice by reincarnating as John the Baptist and having his own head cut off:


"Prompted by her mother, she said, "Give me here on a platter the head of John the Baptist." The king was distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he ordered that her request be granted and had John beheaded in the prison." (Matt. 14:6-10)

Because Elijah had people beheaded, the law of "eye for an eye" and "reaping what we sow" demanded that Elijah be beheaded. This is a good example of how those who live by the sword will die by the sword - if not in the same lifetime then in another.

The Bible does not limit the reincarnation of Elijah to John the Baptist either. The Bible suggests that another reincarnation of Elijah will occur around the time of Jesus' second coming. And not only does Elijah appear again at this time, but Moses is reincarnated as well. In the same way that John and Elijah appeared together on the Mount of Transfiguration so will they appear together at Jesus' return. Here is the Bible passage:


And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lamp stands that stand before the Lord of the Earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies.
This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the Earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. (Rev. 11:3-6)

While this verse does not specifically identify these two witnesses as Elijah and Moses, the miraculous powers they perform suggests it is them. Just like the two witnesses in the Book of Revelation, Elijah had the power to prevent rain from occurring (1 Kings 17:1; Jam. 5:17) and Moses is shown having the power to turn water into blood and to bring plagues (Exod. 7-12). The Bible passage in Revelation describes two prophets who have these identical powers as Elijah and Moses. Is this a mere coincidence? You be the judge. But if Elijah and Moses are to appear again at the second coming of Jesus then the only realistic way for this to occur is through reincarnation.

With the appearance of Elijah and Moses at the first coming of Jesus, it is not a stretch to believe that Elijah and Moses will appear again at the second coming of Jesus. Also, the Malachi prophecy may actually be a reference to both of these incarnations of Elijah.


Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)

There are two comings of Jesus to the world and it would be logical to assume that God will send Elijah at the second coming as he did at the first coming.

During his first coming, the Bible records people wondering if Jesus was the resurrection of John the Baptist or a reincarnation of Elijah or some Old Testament prophet. Here is the verse:


When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." (Matt. 16:13-14)

First of all, in the above Bible passage Jesus actually asks his disciples the identity of the person he was in a past life. Notice that the disciples knew exactly what Jesus was talking about and their answer to Jesus referred to people who died a very long time ago. Notice also that there is no Bible passage that shows Jesus refuting the concept of reincarnation whenever the concept is brought up. Instead Jesus teaches reincarnation.

The next Bible passage shows Jesus telling his disciples that they don't know the spirit they possess. This is an important statement coming from the lips of Christ concerning one particular fact concerning reincarnation. People did not have a conscious awareness of the spirit they possess from a past life. Because of this people do not know who their spirit previously incarnated. The following passage demonstrates this:


And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?"

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
And they went to another village. (Luke 9:54-56, KJV)

The above passage shows the disciples asking Jesus if they should call down fire upon a city just as Elijah did. Jesus responded by telling them that they don't know what spirit they have to be able to accomplish this. The spirit of Elijah can call down fire but this does not mean the disciples can.

[Note: In the original text, the phrase "manner of" was not part of the above Bible verse nor in the Vulgate version. The phrase "manner of" was added at the time that the Bible was being translated into English. Without the words "manner of" in the verse it would be even more a clear reference to reincarnation. It would show Jesus telling his disciples that they "don't know what spirit they are of." However, in modern translations of the Bible this mistranslation is corrected.]

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:18
The Pre-Existence of the Soul

As previously mentioned, pre-existence is the doctrine that a person's soul (and spirit) existed before they were conceived. This also means that all the Bible verses referring to reincarnation also refer to pre-existence. The pre-existence of the soul naturally assumes that reincarnation is a reality. Both reincarnation and pre-existence were concepts that were common knowledge in Jesus' day. And although the Jewish doctrine of reincarnation and the Persian doctrine of resurrection was common knowledge in those days, Jesus taught a more exalted form of resurrection - a spiritual rebirth (awakening) within the body by the Spirit of God. This teaching of Jesus was one of his higher teachings which he passed on only to his closest disciples. But it was frequently misunderstood by the public - especially in later centuries when the Church of Rome yielded more political power. This new form of "resurrection" is a mystical union and at-one-ment of the human body and spirit with the divine Spirit of God. In fact, this mystical teaching of uniting the human with the divine is a very ancient teaching that has been around for thousands of years before Jesus but has existed primarily in the East. Jesus referred to this mystical process as becoming "born again of the Spirit." It is the liberation of the spirit from the cycle of birth and death. And it means eternal citizenship in heaven never to experience death again. To be "born again of water" is a reference to reincarnation (the resurrection of the spirit into a new body).

The pre-existence of the soul was a secret teaching held by early Christians until it was condemned by the Roman Church in 553 A.D., perhaps because it implied reincarnation spirit. The following Bible verses describes the pre-existence of souls.


He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish in his sight and love. (Eph. 1:4)

The above Bible verse states how God knew his chosen people before the world was created. This implies that these chosen people existed before before the world began. Someone may object to this interpretation by stating that these chosen people existed only as a thought in the Mind of God. But even if these chosen people existed only as a thought in the Mind of God it does not negate pre-existence. After all, there may be no difference between being a thought in the Mind of God and pre-existing as a soul. They are probably the same thing.

Another Bible passage that supports pre-existence can be found in the Book of Jeremiah. The author of this book uses the metaphor of a potter (God) and clay (flesh) to describe how God creates, destroys and recreates (reincarnation) better pots (people). This perfection process that humans undergo is an excellent description pre-existence and reincarnation. The purpose for reincarnation is instruction and perfection. The following is the passage in Jeremiah:

This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord:
Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message.

So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
Then the word of the Lord came to me:

"O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the Lord." (Jer. 18:1-6)

For those skeptics who doubt this interpretation refers to reincarnation, Paul uses this same metaphor to describe how God is like a potter who can prefer one pot of clay over another - even before they were created:

Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the Earth."

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"

But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?'"

Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath - prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory. (Rom. 9:13-24)

By comparing the sovereignty of God over humans with the sovereignty that a potter has with clay, Paul is affirming the pre-existence of Jacob and Esau. The central point Paul is making is that God created Esau as an object of wrath because of his so-called hatred for him before he was even born. This is also a good analogy when it is applied to the divine justice of God. God hated Esau because of a past incarnation that displeased God which would explain why God had him reincarnated as an object of wrath. The reverse of this is the case of Jacob. Because he led a previous life that pleased God he was reincarnated as an object of his mercy. Therefore this metaphor is rich with hidden knowledge concerning divine justice, the sovereignty of God, pre-existence, reincarnation, predestination and election. The following is another Bible verse supporting pre-existence.

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58)

The above Bible verse shows Jesus telling his critics that he existed before Abraham was even born. This would be an impossibility unless Jesus pre-existed before he was born. And because Jesus had a human nature along with a divine nature, it does not take a leap of faith to believe that all humans pre-existed. The fact that Jesus taught reincarnation is reason enough to assume that all humans pre-existed.

But if a person assumes that pre-existence and reincarnation are false doctrines then they must explain why there is such an incredible amount of inequities and injustices in life. We can see all over the world how some people are born into rich families with excellent health, provided the best education, live in palatial estates, and many other favorable conditions. On the other hand, some people are born in extreme poverty, with severe handicaps, uneducated, destitute, and many other unfavorable conditions. Without pre-existence and reincarnation this apparent inequity and injustice between people might make a person conclude that God is extremely unjust. Without pre-existence and reincarnation how are we to explain this? This very question was asked of Jesus by his disciples in the Bible passage below:


And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?"

Jesus answered, "Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1-3)

The disciples asked Jesus if the man committed a sin that caused him to be born blind. Given the fact that the man was blind since birth, this is an unusual question to ask unless pre-existence and reincarnation were a fact. How can a man sin before he is even born? The only conceivable answer to this question is a sin that was committed in a past life. And although Jesus stated that the reason the man was born blind was to manifest the works of God and not because of sin, this does not logically imply that everyone who is born in unfavorable circumstances are not born that way because of sin from a past life; unless you believe that all people who are born blind are born that way for the purpose of manifesting the work of God. Just the fact that this blind man and his circumstances are described in the Bible may be what Jesus was referring to concerning his manifesting the works of God.

When this same blind man was brought before the Pharisees, they rejected the blind man's testimony because they believed he sinned before he was even born:

You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us? (John 9:34 NAS)

This shows that even the Pharisees believed is possible to sin before you are born and this implies pre-existence and reincarnation.

It should also be pointed that Jesus did nothing to dispel or correct the idea that the disciples (and the Pharisees) believed in the possibility of sinning before being born. And because Jesus did not correct the implication of pre-existent sin, we can assume that pre-existence is certainly a possibility.

The following Bible verse also supports pre-existence.

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:5)

Unless pre-existence and reincarnation are true, the above Bible verse is completely absurd.

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:18
Reincarnation and Divine Justice

According to the Bible, divine justice demands that sinners pay for their own sins. Jesus taught this when he declared:

All who take the sword will perish by the sword. (Matt. 26:52)
If any one slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. (Rev. 13:10)

Common sense should tell us that everyone who lives by the sword (a life of crime for example) do not always die by the sword. A vast multitude of people throughout history have gotten away with their crimes. In fact, this is another apparent injustice that some people even use to deny the very existence of God. This statement from Jesus is completely absurd and ignorant unless reincarnation is true. For the divine justice that Jesus refers to as being true, people who don't pay for their sins in their life must pay for them in a future life. This fact also applies to the man born blind.

Jesus also taught this law of divine justice in his parables:


In anger his master turned him over to the jailers until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart. (Matt. 18: 34-35)

This law of divine justice was also taught by Paul:

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A person reaps what he sows. (Gal. 6:7)

This is the law of divine justice is also found in the Old Testament:


Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (Exod. 21:24-25)

This law of divine justice is practically a universal religious concept. In eastern religions, this law of divine justice is known as karma. This law of divine justice is equal to the concept of reincarnation. This law of living by the sword and dying by the sword is the principle of reincarnation. In other words, this law of divine justice is the law of reincarnation.

Only reincarnation can satisfy the divine justice of reaping what we sow, an eye for an eye, live by the sword and die by the sword. This universal law of God explains why some people are born under favorable conditions and others are born under unfavorable conditions. It is the very mechanics of birth and rebirth. Reincarnation is the missing link - the long lost doctrine - the key to understanding the secret and mystical teachings of Jesus.

This law of God is the key to the following parable of Jesus:


Again, it [the kingdom of heaven] will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. (Matt. 25:14-15)

This idea that God gives people varying amounts of abilities at birth - each according to his ability - is the heart of reincarnation and the law of divine justice. The great Church Father Origen used this very parable to teach pre-existence and reincarnation.


The soul has neither beginning nor end… [They] come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous lives. (Origen, De Principiis)

When Origen used the parable of the talents to refer to reincarnation and pre-existence he was not introducing some foreign religious concept into the Christian religion. He was merely expressing what is described throughout the Bible and believed by early Christians to be one of the secret teachings of Jesus.

Some early Christian sects not only believed that Jesus paid the debt of divine justice for Adam's original sin, they also believed that Adam was one of many reincarnations of Jesus. These early Christian sects were called the Ebionites, the Elkasaites and the Nazarites. Even the concept of Jesus paying the debt from Adam's sin makes more sense if reincarnation is assumed to be true.

This law of divine justice is so universal that it even applies to science. It is Isaac Newton's law of cause and effect. It is also known as a law in physics: For every action there is an equal and opposing reaction and what goes up must come down. In fact, this law of divine justice is the very law of nature. Breaking the law of divine justice is very similar to breaking the law of gravity. The result is impersonal. Both are a transgression of the law of nature. Because of this we cannot blame God for the apparent injustices that happen to us. Like the law of gravity, if we go against this law of divine justice it is completely our fault and due to our ignorance of divine justice.

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:19
The Dead Inherit the Earth

The following Bible passage is a promise that Jesus makes to those who have forsaken everything to follow him:


No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or wife or children or land for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age - homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields ... and in the age to come, eternal life. (Mark 10:29-30)

Without reincarnation and pre-existence, this promise of Jesus is completely ludicrous because it would be impossible to happen. For example, it would mean that those who leave their parents for the sake of Christ will receive even more parents in the age to come. And those who leave their children for the sake of Christ will receive even more children in the age to come. It is evident that this promise by Jesus intends to be fulfilled in a future life on Earth.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus taught the following principle:

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth. (Matt. 5:5)

This principle begs the question: When will the meek inherit the Earth? For millions of years it has been the aggressive and the strong who have ruled the Earth. In this world the law of evolution (another principle of reincarnation) applies and only the fittest and aggressive survive - certainly not those who are meek. This promise that the meek will inherit the Earth can only be fulfilled in future reincarnation. It means the meek will eventually rule the world when they reincarnate into meek rulers of the world - a promise that can only be fulfilled at another time.

Stefanus
16th November 2009, 23:20
Freewill

What is freewill? What determines its definition? As for any concept, two questions provide the key to a valid identification: "What aspects of reality give rise to the concept?", and "What is its purpose?"

What freewill tries to account for is our introspective conviction that we are in control of many of our choices, and thus our destiny - that we are free to think and decide. We contrast this flexible, conscious control that we enjoy with the involuntary action of, say, our heartbeat or digestion, and with the instinctual imperative of a bird's nest-building or a dog's conditioned response. Our decisions are far more independent of nature and nurture than any animal's; we are aware of our ability to think and of the consequences of our choices - we can claim responsibility for our actions. These are the meaningful differences that give rise to the concept of freewill.

The two primary motives for wanting this concept, and for determining its validity, are the all-important questions of life's meaning and of personal responsibility. Without freewill, if we ultimately had no control over our goals and choices, if all of our actions were simply the inevitable operation of forces outside of ourselves, if freewill was some kind of illusion, then to many of us life would seem bleak indeed. Planning, self-esteem, prescriptive morality, self- and social responsibility would be quite meaningless. However, formulating the concept and proving its validity are two separate tasks - wanting something to be true does not make it so.

Before I list some common definitions of freewill, let me construct a description of what we actually know about the concept that we call freewill - lest we smuggle in some unjustified or unnecessary aspects: A meaningful theory of freewill must account for our undeniable experience of freedom of choice. However, it does not necessarily need to conclude that our choices are free from antecedent factors - empirical evidence and reason must resolve that issue. Secondly, it must account for the flexible, conscious control that we experience in everyday life - the fact that we deliberately select goals, values, and optional plans of action. I insist that the question of what kind of mechanism gives rise to these abilities, whether it is deterministic or not, cannot form part of the definition of freewill.

Here is sampling of traditional descriptions: "Freewill is the ability to freely choose one of several possible alternatives, to make decisions the outcome of which is and cannot be known in advance", "Freewill is the doctrine that human choices are not predetermined", "Freewill means that we are self-determined, not (ultimately) subject to forces outside of our control - it means, we could have done otherwise", "Freewill is the ability to choose and act according to the dictates of our own will", "Freewill comprises choices not caused by, and independent of antecedent factors"

Schuch
17th November 2009, 09:17
Thanx again Stephanus! Very thought provoking material! Going to have to chew on this a bit, but it does make absolute sense.

leerling
24th December 2009, 18:23
Goeienaand Mnr. Die ou Man,





Daniel 12:13

En jy, gaan heen na die einde; en jy sal rus en weer opstaan tot jou bestemming aan die einde van die dae.


Ek het op hierdie werf (http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm)'n skrywe gekry -

AS there was a return of the spirit, or angel, of Elias in the person of John the Baptist before the advent of Jesus, so there will be a return of the angel of Daniel, before the next manifestation of the Christ. Daniel's angel is he who specially foretold the culmination and the hour of overthrow of the world's materialistic system. And when he had completed his prediction he told Daniel that he--Daniel--should rest for the present, but when the time was accomplished, and the end was at hand, he should return and stand again in his place, and prophesy before the world. And the token whereby the approach of the end should be known would be the spectacle of the "abomination of desolation standing in the holy place." A like assurance was given also to John. Now, the holy place is always--whether in the universal or the individual, in the macrocosm or the microcosm--the place of God and the Soul; and the abomination of desolation, or which maketh desolate, is that system of thought which, putting matter in the chief place, and making it the source, substance, and object of existence, abolishes God out of the universe, and the soul out of man, and thus, depriving existence of its light and life, makes it empty, desolate and barren, a very abomination of desolation.
Jesus, recalling this prophecy, and citing the words of Daniel's angel, also foretold the same event as marking the end of that "adulterous" generation [a term identical with idolatrous as denoting the worship of and illicit association with matter], and the coming of the kingdom of God; and warned the elect in mystic phrase, thus to be interpreted:--
"When, therefore, ye shall see matter exalted to the holy place of God and the soul, and made the all and in all of existence;
"Then let the spiritual Israel betake themselves to the hills where alone salvation is to be found, even the heights and fastnesses of the divine life.
"And let him who has overcome the body, beware lest he return to the love of the flesh, or seek the things of the world.
"Neither let him who is freed from the body become again re-incarnate.
"And woe to the soul whose travail is yet unaccomplished, and which has not yet become weaned from the body.
"And beseech God that these things find you not at a season either of spiritual depression and feebleness, or of spiritual repose and unwatchfulness.
"For the tribulation shall be without parallel;
"And such that except those days shall be few in number, escape from the body would be impossible.
"But for the elect's sake they shall be few.
"And if any shall then declare that here, or there, the Christ has appeared as a person, believe it not. For there shall arise delusive apparitions and manifestations, together with great signs and marvels, such as might well deceive even the elect. Remember, I have told you beforehand. Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert, whether of the East or of the West--join him not. Or, Behold he is in darkened rooms and secret assemblies--pay no regard.
"For, like lightning coming out of the East and illuminating the West, so shall be the world's spiritual awakening to the recognition of the Divine in Humanity.
"But wheresoever the dead carcase of error remains, around it, like vultures, will gather both deceivers and deceived.
"And upon them, the profane, there shall be darkness; the Spirit shall be quenched and the soul extinct; and there shall be no more any light in heaven, or in heavenly science any truth and meaning. And the power of heaven upon men shall be shaken.
"Then shall appear the new sign, the Man in Heaven, upon the rain-clouds of the last chrism and mystery, with great power and glory.
"And his missioners shall gather the elect with a great voice, from the four winds and from the farthest bounds of heaven.
"Behold the FIG-TREE, and learn her parable. When the branch thereof shall become tender, and her buds appear, know that the day of God is upon you."
Wherefore, then, saith the Lord that the budding of the fig-tree shall foretell the end?
Because the fig-tree is the symbol of the divine woman, as the vine of the divine man.
The fig is the similitude of the matrix, containing inward buds, bearing blossoms on its placenta, and bringing forth fruit in darkness. It is the cup of life, and its flesh is the seed-ground of new births.
The stems of the fig-tree run with milk: her leaves are as human hands, like the leaves of her brother the vine.
And when the fig-tree shall bear figs, then shall be the second advent, the new sign of the man bearing water, and the manifestation of the virgin-mother crowned.
For when the Lord would enter the holy city, to celebrate his Last Supper with his disciples, he sent before him the fisherman Peter to meet the man of the coming sign.
"There shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water."
Because, as the Lord was first manifest at a wine-feast in the morning, so must he consummate his work at a wine-feast in the evening. 1
It is his Pass-Over; for thereafter the sun must pass into a new sign.
After the Fish, the Water-Carrier; but the Lamb of God remains always in the place of victory, being slain from the foundation of the world.
For his place is the place of the sun's triumph.
After the vine the fig; for Adam is first formed, then Eve.
And because our Lady is not yet manifest, our Lord is crucified.
Therefore came he vainly seeking fruit upon the fig-tree, "for the time of figs was not yet."
And from that day forth, because of the curse of Eve, no man has eaten fruit of the fig-tree.
For the inward understanding has withered away, there is no discernment any more in men. They have crucified the Lord because of their ignorance, not knowing what they did.
Wherefore, indeed, said our Lord to our Lady:--"Woman, what is between me and thee? For even my hour is not yet come."
Because until the hour of the man is accomplished and fulfilled, the hour of the woman must be deferred.
Jesus is the vine; Mary is the fig-tree. And the vintage must be completed and the wine trodden out, or ever the harvest of the figs be gathered.
But when the hour of our Lord is achieved, hanging on his Cross, he gives our Lady to the faithful.
The chalice is drained, the lees are wrung out: then says he to his elect:--"Behold thy Mother!"
But so long as the grapes remain unplucked, the vine has nought to do with the fig-tree, nor Jesus with Mary.
He is first revealed, for he is the Word; afterwards shall come the hour of its interpretation.
And in that day every man shall sit under the vine and the fig-tree; the dayspring shall arise in the orient, and the fig-tree shall bear her fruit.
For, from the beginning, the fig-leaf covered the shame of incarnation, because the riddle of existence can be expounded only by him who has the woman's secret. It is the riddle of the Sphinx.
Look for that tree which alone of all trees bears a fruit blossoming interiorly, in concealment, and thou shalt discover the fig.
Look for the sufficient meaning of the manifest universe and of the written Word, and thou shalt find only their mystical sense.
Cover the nakedness of matter and of nature with the fig-leaf; and thou hast hidden all their shame. For the fig is the interpreter.
So when the hour of interpretation comes, and the fig-tree puts forth her buds, know that the time of the end and the dawning of the new day are at hand,--"even at the doors."

Groete en aangename aand.

Silencio
15th October 2010, 17:44
Why (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/you-are-here-do-you-know-why) are we where we are? We chose it. We chose where we are from the soul level, not the personality level. Before coming to earth, our soul chose the environment and conditions that could best develop the powers necessary for greater growth. After selecting the threefold vessel (physical, emotional and mental) we would use throughout our time here on earth, we chose our parents. We chose the environment and its conditions that we needed for the lessons we had to learn, the talents we had to develop, and the negative traits we needed to overcome in this lifetime.
Reincarnation (http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/rebirth.htm) is grace in action
Some of us elected very difficult circumstances with parents young in soul and asleep to spiritual matters. Some of us choose cruel and unloving parents because we have been like them in other lifetimes and are reaping the harvest of those wrong actions and wrong decisions. We choose circumstances and conditions that will enable us to experience the difficulties we created for others so that we can learn to choose differently – to choose love instead.
Sometimes we choose challenging conditions either for growth in a specific quality that we lack or to bring love and light into an atmosphere that desperately needs it. This seems to be the case with souls who choose physically limited bodies – they do it for those they’re born to.
Free will is not a religious gesture
Free will is a law that governs our state of being on earth just like gravity is a law. Our will is our life; before, during and after life and death. We are allowed the choice to create as we decide – in this life right here and now. The choices we make create the life we live. We’ve all heard the cliché, “It’s not what happens to us that matters, but how we respond to what happens that matters.” We are given the freedom to choose the path we take in life and also the responsibility for the use of our creative powers.
Spiritual organizations often help us to link ourselves with like-minded people to empower the truth we seek in our lives.

Heaven and hell are states of consciousness
When we misuse energy and create wrongly – against the universal flow of love, God, we must redeem our miscreations. Not because God ordained this, but because of the law of cause and effect. We can create Heaven and Hell by our actions and reactions.
In this material plane, parents are responsible for the children they bring into being. The same is true for the creations we make through our thinking and feeling. We are responsible for our creations – our will is our life.

The theory of reincarnation stops the blame game. An astrological natal chart (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/astrological-natal-charts-the-owner-s-manual-for-humans-part-2) provides the tools required to become who we are meant to become in this life rather than bemoaning our circumstances when things don’t go our way.
There is no such thing as a straight line in the universe; space is curved. Everything sent forth from the creators – us – has to come back to its creator – again, us, either for good or ill. If we come bound into this livingness with difficulties it’s because we created those conditions in a past life, not God.
Whatever negative conditions (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/astrology-s-place-the-grand-plan-of-life-between-birth-and-death)happen to us happen because we created them. This helps us change the question, “Why is this happening to me?” to “What in me is attracting this condition?”
The only thing we can change (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/the-zodiac-the-bible-and-the-destiny-of-mankind) is our mind
And this is all that needs changing. If only it were as easy as just saying it! In order to remove the darkness from our lives we must turn on the light (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/happiness-is-for-the-birds-this-is-as-good-as-it-gets-for-the-rest-of-us). At first, the light may reveal all the dust and debris in the outer corners of our character that must be cleaned up if we are to live in the light.
It’s not happening to us; it’s happening for us
In part one (http://www.examiner.com/astrology-in-portland/astrology-and-reincarnation-part-1) of this article, we read that we chose the circumstances of our lives prior to our birth into this lifetime. Condemning any conditions in our life is like inviting a guest over for dinner and then treating them badly when they arrive.
Unloving criticism won’t change anything. A chick doesn’t hatch in a cold and frigid incubator. Only warmth – love in action – creates the climate that will enable the chick to grow and expand until the shell around him can no longer contain him. The chick’s own energy breaks through the shell and he is in a new and more expanded world. If we tried to take the shell off and release the chick before its time, it would die. The same is true with us. If we are cold and critical the potential of beauty and lovingness that is in each of us withers and dies.
Silence is golden
If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. This goes for us as much as others. The power of the spoken word cannot be underestimated. Bless the conditions of your life despite their appearance and the love and light you send forth through that blessing can’t help but return to its creator ….you.


(wat is jul respekvolle opinie?)
Vriendelike groete
Silencio