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Silencio
11th October 2010, 19:29
Ek wil graag hierdie met julle deel en julle respekvolle opinie oor hierdie aksie verneem. Ek is nog nuut en wil graag leer maar wil ook terselfdetyd dinge wat ek bevraagteken met jul deel. Ongelukkig is dit in Engels.

http://www.bigcatrescue.org/images/Ads/2010/ChurchLion.jpgPastor Troy excels in leadership development and is well known for his extreme creativity in designing unexpected worship experiences. A few of those unique worship experiences have been captured in such creative series as: "ivescrewedup.com," "MyNakedPastor.com," "The Bed," "RationaLies," "ivemissed.com" and "TheGiftRevolution.com." Pastor Troys vision is fueled by his passion and his burden to partner with people so they can reach their God potential.

A church in Florida has garnered a lot of attention for using a caged lion on stage as a symbol for Satan (http://www.capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?alertid=16980506).

The church, Flamingo Road Church in Cooper City, Fla., is featuring a series of sermons called "Wild". The pastor of the church, Troy Gramling, arranged for the display of a lion in a cage as a prop for his sermon focusing around verses from the book of 1 Peter. The verses in question use the image of a "roaring lion" as a simile for the devil.

Despite the best efforts of groups like The Christian Vegetarian Association (http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm), the faith as a whole has never been particularly receptive to animal rights ideologies. Dedicated theologians and scholars would debate about the meaning of verses in the book of Genesis (http://bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp) that explicitly name plants and trees as the food for humans. Others would argue the same book gives humanity "dominion" over the animals which could be interpreted as permission to eat them.

These kinds of debates are fruitless and serve only that small segment of any religious group that reads their respective scriptures in any depth. I would argue the real reason Christianity is not receptive to veganism is a simple matter of demographics. It's not a matter of conflicting ideologies, it's simply that for the majority of Americans, Christianity is seen as the "default" religion, and eating meat is seen as the "default" diet.

Christianity is by far the most populous religious group in the US (http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html), and in addition, the majority of people in the US eat meat. To think there wouldn't be a large overlap seems silly.

Pastor Gramling utilizes the lion to inspire fear, and reiterates as many times as he can that the lion wants nothing more than to kill you. As if humanity didn't have enough ill-will toward wild animals, Gramling wants to draw a mental connection between a majestic and beautiful animal and the cause of all evil in the world.

Gramling, speaking from a theatrical stage covered with a tree canopy, plants, and what appear to be taxidermied animals, tries to characterize the lion as blood-thirsty and malevolent. The simile of lion for satan depends on us fearing the lion. But the lion has much more to fear from humans who possess guns (a gun is also featured in Gramling's sermon), and the ability to eliminate their habitat, than humanity has to fear from a lion.

Behind all the theological narrative, the metaphor, and the fear-mongering, the same fact remains that is always present when we display animals: we are using a sentient being as entertainment. The lion paced the cage nervously the whole time the pastor was speaking (http://vimeo.com/14911169). It doesn't take a zoologist to spot frustration and confusion in an enormous animal trapped in a tiny cage.

the Flamingo Road Church in Cooper City, Florida, launched a new "Wild" series of sermons. As part of these sermons, live animals are being used to teach lessons from the Bible. In the first sermon, a caged lion was on stage as a stand-in for Satan. The lion was pacing and clearly stressed by the situation. While animals play a role in the Bible, they are represented in their natural environment; their lessons are analogies, not literal. Rather than teaching respect for other living things, Flamingo Road Church reduced this lion to being a mere prop.
Using a captive wild animal may have added shock value to the sermon about Satan, but what about teaching compassion?


Animals like lions belong in the wild. They do not belong in cages. Lions certainly do not belong on stage in a church being used as a prop to inspire fear and hatred of animals. They shouldn't be supervised by a man who sees an accidental attack by a lion as a possible source of greater profit.:mconfused:

Vriendelike groete
Silencio

knipmes
11th October 2010, 21:32
Hallo Silencio, Welkom hier by ons!

Ek net seg dat dit vir my 'n uiterste belediging is om van 'n dier, veral so 'n majestueuse vorse een, iets so onsmaaklik soos 'n duiwel te wil maak!

groetnis
knipmes

Die Ou Man
11th October 2010, 21:41
Hallo Silencio, Welkom hier by ons!

Ek net seg dat dit vir my 'n uiterste belediging is om van 'n dier, veral so 'n majestueuse vorse een, iets so onsmaaklik soos 'n duiwel te wil maak!

groetnis
knipmes

Ek verwonder my nou hoe die Satan van slang na leeu kon muteer. Is hy nie veronderstel om tot in lengte van dae op sy pens te seil nie?

knipmes
11th October 2010, 21:51
Nou vermoed ek kan mens tong in kies seg dat as jy voortaan 'n leeu in die bos raakloop... hy jou nie sal eet nie !

Hy gaan jou pik!!!

groetnis
knipmes

Die Ou Man
11th October 2010, 22:06
Nou vermoed ek kan mens tong in kies seg dat as jy voortaan 'n leeu in die bos raakloop... hy jou nie sal eet nie !

Hy gaan jou pik!!!

groetnis
knipmes

Dit is ook nie so eenvoudig nie.

Dink aan die koperslang in die Joodse mitologie wat die Israeliete gesond gemaak het. Vandaar die slang as simbool van die mediese wetenskap.

Stefanus
11th October 2010, 22:56
Dit is ook nie so eenvoudig nie.

Dink aan die koperslang in die Joodse mitologie wat die Israeliete gesond gemaak het. Vandaar die slang as simbool van die mediese wetenskap.

In die Chinese mitologie het die vroue-kop slang (Nwa) die eerste mense gemaak.

In die Noorse mitologie was boosheid voorgestel deur die slang of draak (Nidhogg) wat om die wortels van die (Yggdrasil), Boom van die Lewe vasgedraai was en die lewe daarvan probeer wurg het.

Die Vrou
12th October 2010, 08:20
Hello,

Kan ek net byvoeg, dat geen dier met die satan vergelyk kan word nie, hulle is te edel
daarvoor.

Groete

Die Vrou..

Silencio
12th October 2010, 18:51
Dankie vir almal se verwelkomings, ek voel klaar tuis, Knipmes jy het 'n goeie sin vir humor en my lekker laat lag! maar in 'n meer erngstige lig is ek glad nie ingenome met die pastoor nie, ek kan verkeerd wees en wees vry om my te korrigeer asseblief maar soos die vrou ook ges het geen dier kan vergelyk word met Satan nie, dit is vir my verkeerd omdat baie mense so "ignorant" is en onder verkeerde indukke geplaas word. dit sal my nie verbaas as een van daardie kerkgangers wat die diens bygewoon het werklik nou satan in leeu vorm gaan insien en dalk een skiet nie, en dan dink hy het satan oorwin. so sinneloos. die pastoor moet eerder daarop fokus om die mense te leer van liefde, nederigheid en respek en meegevoel - aspekte wat maak dat jy wil groei eerder as om mense te verskrik met waansinnige voorstelle. of sien ek dit verkeerd in?

knipmes
13th October 2010, 19:31
...Vandaar die slang as simbool van die mediese wetenskap...

Nou weet ek hoekom siek word nie meer kan bekostig word nie, want dis al die tyd die slang (of is dit nou 'n Leeu van 'n slang...) wat agter die intense hoe mediese kostes van vandag is, net die rykstes van die rykstes kan dit bekostig... die le.. slang kyk mos na sy kinders!

groetnis
knipmes :tongue_1:

knipmes
13th October 2010, 19:35
..of sien ek dit verkeerd in?..

Nee ou maat, jy's heeltemal reg!

Tog, die anderkant van die munt reken dat as jy nou dalkies 'n slang in die bos raakloop... hy jou nie sal pik nie...

Hy gaan vir jou BRUL!!!


G'n wonder die wereld is deesdae so op sy kop nie!
groetnis
knipmes

knipmes
20th October 2010, 19:40
Jan kom om 'n bos en 'n leeu bestorm hom, hy skrik en laat val sy geweer.
Jan is 'n baie gelowige man en hy begin hardop te bid.
"Here asb laat dit 'n christelike leeu wees en dat hy my genadig sal wees!!!"
Jan maak sy o oop maar die leeu kom nog oop en toe aangehardloop.
Jan bid weer dieselfde.
Hy maak weer sy o oop en die leeu kom nog met meer mening aangehardloop.
Jan bid weer dieselfde.
Die leeu kom en stop skielik net voor Jan en dis net stof, hare, spoeg en klippertjies wat spat.
Die leeu sit sy een voorpoot op Jan se kop en s

"Sen Heer die voedsel wat vir ons voorgesit is en maak ons opreg dankbaar daarvoor. Amen"


groetnis
knipmes

Silencio
20th October 2010, 20:38
Knipmes kyk as daar nou een ding is wat ek meer geniet as wat jy jou stukkie steak of beeshaas of skaapsnit of whatever geniet is dit jou sin vir humor, ek het nou so gelag, miskien moes Jan nie gevra het vir 'n christelike leeu nie maar eerder 'n barmhartige leeu!

thanks!!!!
Silencio