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Die Vrou
29th March 2011, 16:20
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

For we know - The sentiment of this verse is designed as an illustration of what had just been said.
That the whole creation - Margin, "every creature." This expression has been commonly understood as meaning the same as "the creature" in Romans 8:20-21. But I understand it as having a different signification; and as being used in the natural and usual signification of the word "creature," or "creation." It refers, as I suppose, to the whole animate creation; to all living beings; to the state of all created things here, as in a condition of pain and disorder, and groaning and death. Everything which we see; every creature which lives, is thus subjected to a state of servitude, pain, vanity, and death. The reasons for supposing that this is the true interpretation, are,
(1) That the apostle expressly speaks of "the whole creation, of every creature, qualifying the phrase by the expression "we know," as if he was drawing an illustration from a well-understood, universal fact.
(2) this interpretation makes consistent sense, and makes the verse have a direct bearing on the argument. "It is just an argument from analogy."
He had Romans 8:20-21 said that the condition of a Christian was one of bondage and servitude. It was an imperfect, humiliating state; one attended with pain, sorrow, and death. This might be regarded as a melancholy description, and the question might arise, why was not the Christian at once delivered from this? The answer is in this verse. "It is just the condition of everything." It is the manifest principle on which God governs the world. The whole creation is in just this condition; and we are not to be surprised, therefore, if it is the condition of the believer. It is a part of the universal system of things; it accords with everything we see; and we are not to be surprised that the church exists on the same principle of administration; in a state of bondage, imperfection, sorrow, and sighing for deliverance.
Groaneth - Greek, Groans together. All is united in a condition of sorrow. The expression denotes mutual and universal grief. It is one wide and loud lamentation, in which a dying world unites; and in which it has united "until now."
And travaileth in pain together - This expression properly denotes the extreme pain of parturition. It also denotes any intense agony, or extreme suffering; and it means here that the condition of all things has been that of intense, united, and continued suffering; in other words, that we are in a world of misery and death. This has been united; all have partaken of it: it has been intense; all endure much: it has been unremitted; every age has experienced the repetition of the same thing.
Until now - Until the time when the apostle wrote. It is equally true of the time since he wrote. It has been the characteristic of every age. It is remarkable that the apostle does not here say of "the whole creation," that it had any hope of deliverance; an additional consideration that shows that the interpretation above suggested is correct, Romans 8:20-21, Romans 8:23. Of the sighing and suffering universe, he says nothing with respect to its future state. He does not say that the suffering brutal creation shall be compensated, or shall be restored or raised up. He simply adverts to the fact that it suffers, as an illustration that the condition of the Christian is not singular and special. The Scriptures say nothing of the future condition of the brutal creation.
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Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
The whole creation groaneth and travaileth - If it be inquired how the Gentile world groaned and travailed in pain; let them who explain this of the fabric of the material world, tell us how that groans and travails? They must needs own it to be a borrowed and allusive phrase: but in the sense above given, the very literal construction may be admitted.
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Vincent's Word Studies
For
Introducing the proof of the hope, not of the bondage.
Groaneth - travaileth together (συστενάζει - συνωδίνει)
Both only here in the New Testament. The simple verb ὠδίνω to travail, occurs Galatians 4:19, Galatians 4:27; Revelation 12:2; and the kindred noun ὠδίν birth-pang, in Matthew and Mark, Acts, and 1 Thessalonians 5:3. See on Mark 13:9; see on Acts 2:24. Together refers to the common longing of all the elements of the creation, not to its longing in common with God's children. "Nature, with its melancholy charm, resembles a bride who, at the very moment when she was fully attired for marriage, saw the bridegroom die. She still stands with her fresh crown and in her bridal dress, but her eyes are full of tears" (Schelling, cited by Godet).
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Geneva Study Bible
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and {c} travaileth in pain together until now.
(c) By this word is meant not only exceeding sorrow, but also the fruit that follows from it.
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People's New Testament
8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth, etc. The world is in travail, groaning for deliverance. That it is in travail is certain; there is unrest and crying for deliverance everywhere. It may not understand its trouble, nor even what it wants, but the meaning is that it is fallen, its wishes frustrated, and it is sighing for deliverance. These groans and sorrows are a prophecy of a time of deliverance when there shall be new heavens, and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2Pe 3:13).
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Wesley's Notes
8:22 For the whole creation groaneth together - With joint groans, as it were with one voice. And travaileth - Literally, is in the pains of childbirth, to be delivered of the burden of the curse. Until now - To this very hour; and so on till the time of deliverance.
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King James Translators' Notes
the...: or, every creature
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Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
22. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now-If for man's sake alone the earth was cursed, it cannot surprise us that it should share in his recovery. And if so, to represent it as sympathizing with man's miseries, and as looking forward to his complete redemption as the period of its own emancipation from its present sin-blighted condition, is a beautiful thought, and in harmony with the general teaching of Scripture on the subject. (See on [2229]2Pe 3:13).

Silencio
30th March 2011, 21:46
geen disrespek nie liewe vrou, maar waarom uit die bybel aanhaal as jy nie in dit glo nie want dan moet jy ook niks glo wat in dit gemeld word nie? dis ietwat moeilik om 'n debat te voer met jou oor iets waarin jy nie glo nie maar gebruik as argument?

Groetnis
Silencio

Silencio
30th March 2011, 21:48
ons is hier om te leer tussen reg en verkeerd, om geestelik te groei en liefde en barmhartigheid en wysheid te bekom sodat ons die regte keuses sal maak en nie negatiewe invloed sal wees op die aarde nie. ons is nie slawe nie, ons het vrye wil, doen reg of doen verkeerd, h jou Vader lief, soos jy jou pa liefhet, so eenvoudig soos dit

groetnis
Silencio

Die Vrou
31st March 2011, 07:57
Ow!!

Silencio

Re: Romans 8:20-21.
geen disrespek nie liewe vrou, maar waarom uit die bybel aanhaal as jy nie in dit glo nie want dan moet jy ook niks glo wat in dit gemeld word nie? dis ietwat moeilik om 'n debat te voer met jou oor iets waarin jy nie glo nie maar gebruik as argument?

Groetnis
Silencio


Dit word nie as disrespek aanvaar nie, jy't my versekering. Al hoekom ek dit daar geplaas het is om die mens te wys dat die hele skepping smag na vryheid. Ek't net nie geweet hoe om die mens te wys dat als hier swaar kry nie, ek's jammer as dit nou die indruk is wat ek by jou geskep het. Meeste mense soek die waarheid in bybels, selfs ek het dit gedoen.
Silencio, ek het ook eers in die bybel na die waarheid gaan soek soos enige ander mens, en ek het in daardie twee versies besef dat als werklik hier swaar ly en pyn en smart verduur en ook na hulle vryheid smag. Selfs die een wat daardie woorde geskryf het, het dit geweet. En soos stefanus ook tereg s is dat baie verskillende gode 'n aandeel het by die skrywe van die bybel het. Ek skryf dit toe aan hulle blindheid. Geen mens kan sien watter gees met hulle praat nie.

En ek argumenteer met niemand nie, ek probeer net dat ander my standpunt insien, en nog 'n ding ek probeer ook niemand te vorseer om soos ek te glo. Ek plaas my standpunte vir almal om te lees en self te besluit wat hulle glo.

Ek hoop jy't 'n aangename dag verder Silencio! ;)

Liefde groete

Die Vrou..