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Thread: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Bee777.

    The two stories do not end with the two creation myths. There are also two flood myths, two covenants as well as two different versions of the Ten Commandments.

    You should know that the Creator of the first creation is referred to as God (Elohim) while the Creator of the second creation myth is refered to as LORD God (Jehovah Elohim).

    If you study the flood myth, you will find that the confusion that you referred to, is the result of two seperate flood stories being woven together to read as one.

    However, it is easy to reconstruct the two versions into a God version (Genesis 1) and a LORD version (Genesis 2:4)

    The God version does not make provision for sacrafice, therefor one pair of each will do. The LORD version puts extra birds and clean animals on the ark to be sacrafised later.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    Hi i really don't understand the point you are trying to make, maybe let me read a full article of yours so i can get the pic, sorry a bit blonde at times.

    Remember when the Bible says " God" it is referring to all three, the Father, Jesus and the Holy spirit.

    God, being all three created everything in my findings, and then Lord God being Jesus took over. that is also why when Jesus was here He never addressed " Lord God" as it was Him he addressed " Father"

    Ok waiting to read your explanation and findings on creation.

    Blessings in Truth
    Bee777

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Before the written word, there were many oral traditions relating to Hebrew history. The oral traditions were later written down.

    Ons such a document was the written by an unknown person, referred to as the Jahwist, because of his reference to his God as YHWH (LORD). The second creation myth comes from this source.

    Another document was written by an unknown person, referred to as the Elohist because of his reference to his God as Elohim (God)

    The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

    Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

    One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Bee777.



    I say that we have a problem and my question remains: "How would you go about to rasionalise this obvious contradiction?"

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    Wie se hierdie is "an obvious contradiction". Ons kan nie die skrif altyd letterlik so vertaal. Baie van die vroeŽ skrifte van die bybel is simbolies.

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

    Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

    One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

    Mag ek net vra - wie het die "Witboek" geskryf?

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by witsybok View Post
    Wie se hierdie is "an obvious contradiction". Ons kan nie die skrif altyd letterlik so vertaal. Baie van die vroeŽ skrifte van die bybel is simbolies.
    Witsybok.

    God (Elohim) beveel Noag om twee van elke voŽl spesie en dier op die Ark te neem.

    Die HERE (Jehovah) beveel Noag om sewe pare voŽls en sewe pare rein dier op die ark te neem.

    Hierdie het nie te make met simboliek nie. Een van die twee weergawes is vals. Beide kan nie waar wees nie.

    Ons weet ook dat die onderskeid tussen rein en onrein diere eers in Levitikus gegee is. Dit volg dus logies watter weergawe vals is.

    Terloops, 'n ander afleiding wat ons uit hierdie teenstrydige weergawes kan maak is dat God (Elohim) en die HERE (Jehovah) nie dieselfde Wese is nie.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Before the written word, there were many oral traditions relating to Hebrew history. The oral traditions were later written down.

    Ons such a document was the written by an unknown person, referred to as the Jahwist, because of his reference to his God as YHWH (LORD). The second creation myth comes from this source.

    Another document was written by an unknown person, referred to as the Elohist because of his reference to his God as Elohim (God)

    The compilers of the Torah redacted these documents to form a single version of events. When one reads through the Torah it is easy to see where the redactor jumps from one version to the other. It is quite easy to detect that the flood myth is a concoction of two versions.

    Read post 2 on this thread for an explanation.

    One cannot attempt to explain the contradictions in the Torah without the knowledge of how it was compiled and why it was necessary for a masive redaction of the scriptures in Babilon.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    Thanks for the interesting info " ou man"

    But that is my argument exactly, what you are saying in other words is that the Bible is not good enough on it's own ?

    That would make a cruel and very unfair God, as Tant Sarie sitting alleen op die plaas with just her Bible and some time should be able to find the same answer as a scholar with a Bible and a hundred books written by man ?

    The point I'm making is that we have to accept the Bible especially the KJV and very accurate Dutch and OLD Afrikaans Bible is good enough for us.
    Our forefathers came with only those and understood the will of the Father.

    Remember the Bereans ACTS 17;10 who searched the scriptures daily to see if it was true.?
    That tells us that the scriptures( OT) alone were good enough for them, and they were called ' noble" because of this.The Bible backs itself up without the aid of any other material.

    That is why Ivan Pannin, the link I gavein another post, has done his Bible numerics in the KJV, and found that the Bible is perfect as is, and Divinely inspired.
    please read it first for yourself.

    All that other info is very interesting but i don't trust any of it for certain as i know of the Jesuit aim to deceive us as they are just hand puppets for Satan.

    I mean no disrespect but we MUST KNOW that the Bible can stand alone.
    Blessings
    Bee777

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Bee777.

    Would you restrict God and only allow God to speak through the Bible, especially if you are well aware of the fact that the Torah was corrupted in Babilon by the Jewish priesthood.

    Maybe it is high time that we "free" the image of God from the bondages and restrictions placed upon It by the Jewish priesthood whose father (according to Jesus) was Satan.

    I say this with the greatest respect to God and because of my respect for God.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Bee777.

    Would you restrict God and only allow God to speak through the Bible, especially if you are well aware of the fact that the Torah was corrupted in Babilon by the Jewish priesthood.

    Maybe it is high time that we "free" the image of God from the bondages and restrictions placed upon It by the Jewish priesthood whose father (according to Jesus) was Satan.

    I say this with the greatest respect to God and because of my respect for God.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    No we know that God uses the Holy Spirit to speak to us as well as prophets, but if you want His complete work, the Bible has it all.

    I know the Torah was corrupted that is why i do not understand why you study from it?
    it would be the same as I use some NIV translation which has also been corrupted.

    My point is whatever you read, compare and test it to the Bible KJV to see if it is true, as Satan is SUBTLE and even he transforms himself into an angel of light.
    Remember he takes the truth and then swings it 1 degree to mimic the truth.

    The only way i have found my info and symbolic meanings is thanks to the Holy spirit, not by reading other works of men. Afterwards I might go look and see what other humans have found and see if it fits scripturally or not, and with my initial teaching from the Holy Spirit.

    Blessings
    Bee777

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bee777 View Post
    No we know that God uses the Holy Spirit to speak to us as well as prophets, but if you want His complete work, the Bible has it all.

    Blessings
    Bee777
    You are absolute correct in your statement, namely: "The Bible has it all."

    The Bible reflects the message of the Prophets as well as the message of the Jewish priesthood, whose father is Satan.

    The question is: "How do you distinguish?

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:

    • Die woord van God is.

    • Deur die Heilige Gees geÔnspireer is.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.

    • 'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

    Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    God's name is always used to justify beliefs. Look at the Christians. Look at the Moslems.

    Paul

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