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Thread: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

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    Default Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:

    • Die woord van God is.

    • Deur die Heilige Gees geïnspireer is.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.

    • 'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

    Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    'n Goeie vertrekpunt om te bepaal of die Bybel die woord van God is, is die Pentateug onder die Jode bekend as die Torah. Die Pentateug/Torah behels die vyf Boeke van Moses naamlik:



    Volgens tradisie en oorlewering is die vyf boeke van die Pentateug/Torah deur Moses geskryf. Dit is egter nie die waarheid nie.

    'n Letterlike analise van die sogenaamde vyf Boeke van Moses (Pentateug) dui daarop dat dit deur 'n aantal persone geskryf is. Die Pentateug is die resultaat van 'n samevoeging van verskillende tradisies en verhale.

    Die mees aanvaarbare teorie wat hierdie sameflansing verklaar, staan bekend as die Dokumentêre Hipotese, of Graf-Welhausen Hipotese, na aanleiding van die outeurs daarvan.

    Die Dokumentêre Hipotese beskou die Pentateug as saamgestel deur 'n reeks redakteurs uit vier verskillende hoofstroom literêre tradisies. Hierdie tradisies staan bekend as J, E, D en P. Die onderstaande diagram toon aan hoe hierdie tradisies met mekaar in verband staan.

    Graf_Wellhausen_Hypothesis.png

    J (die Jahwehis of Jerusalem bron) gebruik die Tetragramaton as die naam van God. Hierdie bron se belangstelling toon aan dat hy gefunksioneer het in die suidelike Koningkryk van Juda, na die verdeling van Israel. J is die skrywer van die grootste deel van Génesis.

    E (die Elohis of Efraimitiese bron) gebruik die naam, Elohim vir God tot Exodus 3-6, waar die Tetragramaton (YHWH) aan Moses en Israel openbaar word. Dit blyk dat die Elohis in die noordelike Koninkryk van Israel gewoon het. Die Elohis het die Aqedah verhaal en ander gedeeltes van Génesis, Exodus en Numerie geskryf.

    Die onderskeie verhale van die Jahwehis en die Elohis is teen ongeveer 722 vC na die val van die Noordelike Ryk saamgevoeg.

    D (Die Deuteronomis) was die skrywer van die grootste gedeelte van Deuteronómium (en waarskynlik ook Joshua, Rigters, Samuel en Konings). Daar word vermoed dat Deuteronómium die boek is wat deur Koning Josia in 622 vC ontdek is (sien 2 Konings 22:8).

    P ( die Priesterlike bron) het die eerste skeppingsverhaal van Génesis 1 geskryf, sowel as Levítikus en ander segmente met geslagsregisters en inligting aangaande die priesterskap en aanbidding. Volgens Welhausen was P die laaste skrywer en is die Torah finaal saamgevoeg teen ongeveer 539 vc. Daar word egter aanvaar, deur onder andere James Milgron, dat die P dokument materiaal bevat wat dateer voor die ballingskap era.

    Daar is steeds meningsverskil aangaande welke van dokumente P en D die laaste byvoeging verteenwoordig. Daar is egter algemene konsensus dat die Dokumentêre Hipotese die beste daarin slaag om die duplikasie, teenstrydighede en verskille in terminologie en teologie in die eerste vyf boeke van die Bybel te verklaar.

    Hier volg 'n paar voorbeelde van verskille tussen die vier verhale wat vervleg is om die Pentateug saam te stel.


    Bronne:
    • Friedman, "Torah (Pentateuch)" in the Anchor Bible Dictionary.
    • W. Gunther Plaut, ed., The Torah: A Modern Commentary (New York: Union of American Hebrew Congregations, 1981).
    • Lawrence Boadt, Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction (New York: Paulist Press, 1984).


    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

    Ns.

    Lees verder hier vir ernstige teenstrydighede in die sogenaamde "Woord van God".

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3


    As die fondamente omgegooi word, wat kan die regverdige doen? Psalm 11:3
    Last edited by Stefanus; 5th July 2008 at 15:01.

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Die eerste 5 boeke, dit beteken 'n man mag nou maar weer vark ek kreef eet, ek was hoeka so lief vir kreef

    So dan is die 10 gebooie ook tot niet, ek mag nou my buurman se vrou begeer

    Grap maar net, ek is meer as tevrede met my eie vrou

    Wat ek wel kan se is dat ek 'n paar jaar terug by 'n Homopaat was, sy het vir my gese dat ons menseras glad nie mag varkvleis eet nie, varkvleis maak ons inwendig siek, so ook kreef, kreef asook vark is aasdiere, as 'n mens dink dat jy aasdiere eet kan jy netsowel aasvoels wat vrotsvleis vreet kan eet, wel ek sit nooit ooit weer my mond aan kreef of vark nie

    Dit het my op 'n staduim laat dink dat die 10 gebooie tog reg kan wees, maar nie totdat ek die Ou Man se redenasie gehoor het nie, ek se nie dat hy reg is nie maar hy laat my tog twyfel, vernaam met sy laaste pos

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Daar is onlangs weer onder my aandag gebring dat die Bybel:

    • Die woord van God is.

    • Deur die Heilige Gees geïnspireer is.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die Skepping weergee.

    • 'n Foutlose en heilige weergawe van die oorsprong van die mens weergee.

    • 'n Drie-Enige God verkondig.

    Hierdie beskouing het my nog altyd amuseer, want die Bybel wat ek lees, veral in die Pentateug, bevat die waarheid sowel as leuens, teenstrydighede en weersprekings. Watter God aanbid ons dan wat so onkonsekwent is? Is God se woord dan nie veronderstel om die ewige waarheid weer te gee nie?

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    Hi Plus Ivan Pannin's bible numerics prove that the KJV is perfect and all we need to study the Bible along with a basic Strongs Concordance, see here

    Ans also some amazing bible facts
    Genesis 17:12: "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed."

    Why was circumcision to be carried out on the eighth day? Medical science has discovered that the eighth day is the only day in the entire life of the newborn that the blood clotting element prothrombin is above 100%.


    Leviticus 17:11 (written 3000 years ago): "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

    The Scriptures declare that blood is the source of life. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled", and many died because of the practice. We now know that blood is the source of life. If you lose your blood, you will lose your life.
    Job 28:25 To establish a weight for the wind, And apportion the waters by measure.

    The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.
    LINK

    Blessings
    Bee777

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    There are truely some amazing facts in the Bible, as in the mithology of other peoples of the world as well. The Hebrew version of ancient history is not all there is to know about ancient history. In fact it does not come near explaining Creation.

    The Hebrew version is particularly flawed because of the many alterations to the scriptures of their own patriarchs by the priesthood.

    The most important falsification is the deliberate attempts to alter the scriptures with the purpose to elevate the status of Jehovah from God of Israel (a tribe) to God of earth and heaven.

    Initially, Jehovah was a tribal God, who "evolved" into a cosmic God, through the manipulation of scriptures in Babilon.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    There are truely some amazing facts in the Bible, as in the mithology of other peoples of the world as well. The Hebrew version of ancient history is not all there is to know about ancient history. In fact it does not come near explaining Creation.

    The Hebrew version is particularly flawed because of the many alterations to the scriptures of their own patriarchs by the priesthood.

    The most important falsification is the deliberate attempts to alter the scriptures with the purpose to elevate the status of Jehovah from God of Israel (a tribe) to God of earth and heaven.

    Initially, Jehovah was a tribal God, who "evolved" into a cosmic God, through the manipulation of scriptures in Babilon.

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man
    Hi Ou man,
    I know through my studies that creation in the KJV is perfect it is just our inability to decipher that is flawed. Ivan Pannin's work proves that it is nothing less than God inspired, have you read his work ?

    I do not understand what you mean by Babylon ?
    I know God had two creations, one singular Adamic line and another plural, males and females, whom He also called Adam, being ruddy.
    Satan has his own creation known as the tree of knowledge which is non ruddy/white.
    That is why God said " there will be enmity between your ( Satan ) seed and her ( eve/god seed) god did create the Babylonians and told them to multiply and subdue the earth, whilst He took Adam and put him in the garden, two separate actions.
    The Babylonians ( later known as the gentiles), however, they thought they themselves were gods and thus built the tower of Babel, the origin of mythology etc

    If you break it down for me I will show you what i have found and start reading here and HERE as it also gives some insight.

    blessings in the truth of Christ
    Bee777

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Bee777.

    According to the Bible, how many pairs of each bird specie, was on Noah's ark?

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Die Ou Man View Post
    Bee777.

    According to the Bible, how many pairs of each bird specie, was on Noah's ark?
    Morning ou man, we here early LOL

    umm, i don't know why you ask that question. but I get by sevens the fowl of the air GEN 7;3



    Blessings
    Bee777
    Last edited by Bee777; 18th November 2008 at 08:33. Reason: jumping the gun a bit.

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    Default Re: Die Bybel: Woord van God: Sowaar?

    Bee777.

    I asked the question to illustrate a very important aspect.

    If I say to you that you are wrong. There was only one pair (Gen 6:19, 21). How will you go about to rasionalise this problem?

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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