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Thread: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    The Exodus
    Kings 6:1 dates the Exodus to 480 years before the founding of Jerusalem´s temple by King Solomon. According to the orthodox chronology this gives a date of around 1450 BC. However, Exodus 1:11 states that Pharaoh put the Hebrews to work on the cities of Pithom and Raamses. The location of Pithom is in doubt, but the city of Raamses is thought to be Pi-Ramsses built by Ramesses II (orthodox dates 1279-1212BC). As a result, it is usually suggested that the Israelites actually worked on a settlement in the same location as Pi-Ramesse which predated it. A stele from the reign of Merenptah (the successor of Ramesses II) notes that "Israel is laid waste, bare of seed," confirming that the exodus must have taken place before his reign (given the forty year sojourn in the desert), dated as 1212-1202 BC (orthodox chronology).

    The name "Moses" may be the Egyptian name "Moses" or "Messes" meaning born of. This was usually combined with the name of a god (eg Thuth-moses or Ra-messes). However, the name may also come from the Hebrew verb "Masha" (to draw out) and be translated as "he draws out". In Exodus 2:10, Pharaohs daughter states that she gave him his name "Because I drew him out of the water", perhaps she chose an Egyptian pun on a Hebrew name to reflect his origin.

    Moses apparently belonged to a group of Semitic settlers whose ancestors had arrived in Egypt from the land of Canaan. People from Canaan had settled the delta since the middle of the Twelfth Dynasty (the Middle Kingdom). Remains from the settlement at Tell el-Dab'a in the Delta, confirm that the settlers were Semitic nomads and pastoralists, like the Hebrews. This settlement grew and developed into the Hyksos capital of Avaris, and was later swallowed up by Piramesse.

    Raameses (Pi-Ramesses)
    Succoth
    Bal Zephon
    Alternative route
    Mount Sinai
    Jericho


    According to the modern translation of the Bible, Moses prophesised the advent of the "ten plagues of Egypt" and then escaped with the Israelites via the Red Sea. Pharaoh gave chase and God saved the Israelites by parting the waters to allow them safe passage. Pharaoh´s charioteers were all lost. There are a bewildering number of theories regarding this biblical tale, ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.


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    Who was the pharaoh of the Exodus?
    Ahmose I
    The Tempest Stele was erected by the Pharaoh Ahmose I (orthodox dates1570-1546 BC) the founder of dynasty Eighteen and the New Kingdom. The stele describes the great storm that struck Egypt during his reign. 'now then ... the gods declared their discontent. The gods [caused] the sky to come in a tempest of r[ain], with darkness in the western region and the sky being unleashed without [cessation, louder than] the cries of the masses, more powerful than [...], [while the rain raged] on the mountains louder than the noise of the cataract which is at Elephantine.'

    Proponents further suggest that the phrase "his Majesty began ...to provide them with silver, with gold, with copper, with oil, and of every bolt [of cloth] that could be desired. Then his majesty made himself comfortable inside the palace" refers to Pharaoh giving Moses the material to build the ark. Thus, Moses becomes a Hyksos leader accepting goods from the Egyptian Pharaoh as part of a deal which would result in the Hyksos leaving Egypt. Manetho alleges that the Theban Pharaoh laid siege to Avaris (the Hyksos capital) and the outcome was a treaty by which the Hyksos agreed to leave Egypt. Manetho also confirms that the Hyksos settled in Jerusalem!

    This puts a rather different slant on the biblical description of "bondage in Egypt". The Hyksos invaded Egypt and held power in northern (lower) Egypt for over a hundred years (according to Manetho) and even sacked Memphis around 1720BC (orthodox dates). They were eventually forced from the country by a rival line of Kings from Thebes. Thus the put upon "slaves" become an invading power and any monuments they built were for their own kingdom. Furthermore, the Hyksos kings placed their names in cartouche and adopted Seth as their pre-eminent god. While his warlike attributes have something in common with the bloodthirsty god of Moses, worship of the Egyptian god Seth could hardly be considered Monotheistic.

    The biblical plagues have often been dismissed as being far too late to name Ahmose I as the Pharaoh of the exodus, but proponents argue that the dates currently accepted for the exodus are too late in any case. Some commentators have argued that there was in fact 585 years from the founding of Solomon's Temple back to the Exodus, giving a date of 1552.
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  2. #42
    Member Antje De waal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Akhenaten
    Manetho tells the story of Osarseph, a rebellious Egyptian priest, Pharaoh Amenhotep and his son "Ramesses also called Sethos" (of the New Kingdom). Apparently, Osarseph took control of Egypt for thirteen years. He defiled the temples and terrorised the people. Pharaoh fled from Egypt to protect his infant son, but the son returned to Egypt and threw Osarseph out of Egypt. According to Josephus, Manetho believed that Osarseph was Moses, and many have pointed to the similarity between these events and the rule of Akhenaten. Akhenaten certainly rejected the gods and imposed a form of Monotheism.

    However, Josephus also quotes an alternative Egyptian historian, Chaeremon, He also identifies the rebel priest with Moses, but names him 'Tisathen'. He also claims that there was a co-conspirator named Peteseph who he considered to be Joseph! This doesn't sound much like Akhenaten who only really shared power with his wife. In any case, there is plenty of evidence that the beginning of Akhenaten´s rule was fairly normal and that he was the direct successor of his father, the Pharaoh Amenhotep III. Furthermore, neither account refers to Smenkhare, or Tutankhamun and the return to Thebes.

    Ramesses I
    Some commentators have argued that to the story of Osarseph´s rebellion should be placed during the co-regency of Ramesses I and Seti I during the New Kingdom. They propose that there was a counter-revolution when Akhenaten died. Horemheb persecuted the followers of Akhenaten and destroyed his monuments. When Horemheb died, Osarseph/Moses returned to Egypt, to lead the rebellion, against Horemheb's successor Ramesses I. Like Horemheb, Ramesses was general in the army and had no royal blood. He ruled for only two years before passing power to his son Seti I.

    If the bible is correct to state that Moses an adopted member of the royal household, then he would have had a claim to the throne. The fact that Akhenaten has been written out of Egyptian history (he is notably absent from the kings lists written during the reigns of Seti I and Ramesses II) seems consistent with this view.

    Tuthmose III
    When Thera exploded it effectively destroyed the Minoan civilisation and caused huge tidal waves and a huge pillar of black smoke. Many commentators have noted that the ten plagues of Egypt can be explained with reference to the environmental effects of such a huge volcanic eruption. The eruption is estimated (by carbon dating and supporting environmental evidence from a number of sites around the world) to have occurred around 1640 BC. So who was the pharaoh when Thera exploded?

    Some have suggested that the New Kingdom Pharaoh Tuthmosis III may have been in control of Egypt at this time. It is noted that he led armies between the Bitter Lakes into Canaan. The route taken by Moses. However, his campaigns in Caanan were highly successful. Furthermore, there was no sucessional difficulty with his son who maintained Egyptian power in that area. It is hard to see the Israelites escaping him as he plundered the area (unless this is the reason for hiding in the desert for forty years).

    The Minoans imported a copper-calcium-silicate pigment called Egyptian blue to paint frescoes. Therefore we know that the two cultures had trading links.In the tomb of Senemut (architect and vizier to Queen Hatshepsut) there is a scene depicting men wearing short patterned kilts carrying Late Minoan 1A pottery vases. While, in the tomb of Rekhmire (a viziers of Thuthmosis III) a man carries a piece of Late Minoan 1B pottery. The figure is wearing a longer kilt, associated with the later phase of Minoan culture. It is during this phase that Thera erupted.

    This causes a major problems for the dating system as Thuthmosis is general considered to have reigned between about 1504 and 1450 BC, not 1640BC.

    Even if the date could be reconciled, the details of his reign don't really fit too well. Queen Hatshepsut ruled Egypt after the death of her husband, Tuthmose II. Her step-son, Thutmose III was her co-regent for some time, and took the throne on her death. At some point in his rule, he seems to have ordered her name to be purged from all her monuments. Despite the apparent acrimony between them, Hatshepsut was a powerful and able ruler, and Tuthmosis inherited a prosperous nation from her. He became famous as a strong warrior-pharaoh who plundered the very area that the Israelites were fleeing to.

    However, there is some classical support lining Tuthmosis and Moses. According to Josephus, Moses was his general in a campaign against the Ethiopians. It is argued by some that Tuthmose took the credit for these victories. However, this is not historically accurate. Tuthmose takes credit for his extensive campaigns in Asia (including Megiddio, Kadesh and Gaza). Moses apparently returned from the military campaign, took an Ethiopian wife, and then demanded that his people be freed.

    Seti II
    The route chosen by the escaping Israelites, from Piramesse to Tjeku (biblical Succoth: Exodus 12:37) and eastwards, was precisely the same that was used by two escaping slaves of the late 13th century BC, during the reign of Seti II as reported in Papyrus Anastasi V.

    Egyptian mythology
    Osiris and his wife Isis ruled over Egypt during the golden age in prehistory. His brother Set was jealous of him, so he hatches an elaborate plot to kill him and steal the throne. Isis raised her son Horus in secret, and he returned to take back the throne from Set. The echoes in the tale of Moses are so clear it is tempting to doubt that any of the details in the bible are more than an Egyptian inspired creation myth. Moses performed Egyptian magic tricks (such as turning a snake into a rod and back again) and the parting of the sea is highly reminiscent of a similar trick recorded during the reign of the pharaoh Snefru.


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    The Israelites needed a story of great deeds proving the power of their faith and enshrining the idea that they were chosen that the myth was born. However, while they may have rejected Egyptian gods, both the Israelites and later the Christians borrowed heavily from Egyptian mythology.

    Maybe all that can be said with certainty is that a number of Semitic peoples lived in Egypt from the Twelfth Dynasty, and that at some point a number of them left Egypt and established Israel. Perhaps there was no 'great escape', just the story of a hard trek across the desert followed by a military conquest of the peoples of Palestine.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    The Israelites needed a story of great deeds proving the power of their faith and enshrining the idea that they were chosen that the myth was born. However, while they may have rejected Egyptian gods, both the Israelites and later the Christians borrowed heavily from Egyptian mythology.
    Antje om terug te kom na die vraag: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Ons moet besef dat die Bybel nie die woord van God is nie maar dat God wel in die boek bespreek word soos wat die verskillende skrywers sy god oorgedra het. Die vraag wat by my opkom is: indien die geskrifte in alle opsigte korrek was, waarom het die Vader sy Seun gestuur met 'n "Nuwe" boodskap?

    God is dan diesefde oor al die tye, waarom ons van nuut kom leer oor die Vader?

    Die Nuwe Testament het sy oorsprong te danke aan die Romeinse Ryk wat 'n staatsgodsdiens daargestel het vir al sy onderdane en die wat nie daarmee eens was nie het hy vermoor. Vandag sit ons met die twee bundels geskrifte wat as die Bybel bekendstaan, die een gedeelte wat Jesus met sy leeringe van die Vader kom regstel het en die ander gedeelte wat Jesus se boodskap oordra maar wat deur die Romeinse staat saamgestel is om sy doelswitte/dogma te verkondig. Hierdie sameflansing van die geskrifte is duidelik waarneembaar uit die hoeveelheid teenstrydighede wat daarin voorkom.

    Die Witboek is daargestel om die Koningkryk van God vir ons te verduidelik en gee dus vir ons 'n beter voorstelling van die Goddelike huis. Met die kennis wat die Witboek aan ons lewer is die Bybel beter verstaanbaar, maak dinge sin wat "moeilik" is en neem die "glo net" gedeeltes weg.

    Daar is egter ander geskrifte ook wat ons help om nader aan die waarheid te kom, so is daar die "Nag Hammadi" en die "Dooie See" geskrifte wat 'n beter prentjie van die ware Christus gee.

    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus
    Last edited by Stefanus; 11th December 2007 at 15:45.

  4. #44
    Member Antje De waal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Stefanus daar is geen nuwe storie nie,

    God is die selfde vandag as gister tot alle eewigheid, God verander nie, Hy is, Die storie van Jesus en sy koms die rede en so meer is vertel van die begin van die Bybel af van die begin van greation, and the word was with God and word became flesh

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

    John 1:14
    14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[a] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


    Jesus came to preach new life nie new teachings nie, In die ou test was on weg van God en sy mercy, het ons in sonde gelewe en gesterwe was ons geestlik dood, en die bybel se ons moet geestelik gebore wees om na God te kan gaan, met die sonde val het ons geestelik gedood, en kon ons nie voor God kom nie. Di dood wat vir Adam en eva voorgehou is was nie n fiesiese dood soos ons dit ken nie maar n geestlike dood. al ooit gehoor van iemand wat se ek is dood sonder jou, is die persoon dood sonder die ander een nee, maar binne in is dit dood. Al ooit gehoor van emosineele dood, n vrou wat talle male verkrag is gaan binne dood en daar kry ons ons weskoppies, die vrou is liggaamlik hier maar binne is sy dood, met die sondeval is dit waar ons dood is, geestlik was ons dood voor God en kon ons nie met hom kominikeer nie ons was verlore, nog n voorbeeld n kind wat sy pa afskryf en se my pa is dood, is sy pa nee maar vir hom / haar is die ouer nie meer daar nie, en is die persoon dood vir daai persoon die woord dood, beteken meer as net n fiesiese dood.

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

    There is none righteous, no, not one, there is not that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God they are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:10,11,12,23

    Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

    Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:16

    Choosing rather to suffer affliction (Moses) with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Hebrews 11:25

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8


    Nou kom ons by die offering hande wat die ou test mense aan God gegee het, kom ons kyk na die bedoeling daar van:

    Ons het gesondig en sodoende het ons geestelik gesterf, diere en mense het een ding in gemeen en dit sien ons in die Bybel, Life en die scripture wat dit bevestig is

    Gen. 1:20: "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life" (The word "life" here is nephesh--soul).

    Next verse: "And God created great whales, and every living creature (nephesh--soul) that moveth, which the water brought forth abundantly."

    Verse 24: "The living creature (nephesh) after his kind, cattle and creeping things."

    Verse 30: "Every beast...every foul...everything that creepeth, wherein there is life (nephesh)."


    Nou met die sonde val is ons dood, voor God maar nie die diere nie wanat hulle het nie gesondig nie, so om na God te gaan moes ons n manier kry om voor Hom te staan sonder dat Hy ons "Sien"

    Kom ons kyk hoe het eva en adam eerste weg gekryp vir God:

    And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons
    .
    Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

    So hoe het ons dit gedoen, ons het bloed gevind, wat is in die bloed,

    Lev. 17:10-11: "I will even set my face against that soul (nephesh) that eateth blood...For the life (nephesh--soul) of the flesh is in the blood..."
    Deut. 12:20-23: "Thy soul (nephesh) longeth to eat flesh thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul (nephesh) lusteth after...the blood is the life (nephesh--soul); and thou mayest not eat the life (nephesh--soul) . . ."


    Hoer lees ons dat die bloed die siel van die mens of dier is en omdat ons menselike siele /gees dood was voor God moes ons iets vind wat as tussen gang kan wees tussen my en God, ons was gemaak om met Hom te wees, en nou staan ons buite so ons moes n foon kry na God toe en dit was duer bloed, en sacrafice, so nou het ons die telefoon na God oop en kan ons praat maar ons is nog steeds "vervreem" van God.

    God omdat Hy ons Pa is en ons lief het soek n uitweg, so dat HY ons weer in Sy arms kan toe vou ons beskerm en saam met ons in die tuin wandel, omdat ons sonde van die aard was wat ons geeslik dood gemaak het en bloed ons telefoon was na Hom sien HY die moontlikeheid om ons vir altyd en eewig van ons sonder skoon te was, Sy Eie Godlike Bloed, die Grootse offer wat n ouer kan gee vir haar / Sy Kind, Sy eie lewe en God begin werk aan die plan,

    Cleanse The Inside First.

    Not only is the doctrine of two distinct falls from grace contrary to scripture, the solution taught for resolving the "problem" is equally contrary to scripture. Many insist on reversing God's true plan of salvation as they attempt to require outward holiness before inward holiness. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. In these scriptures, Jesus clearly outlined the cleansing process. Indeed, in this line of thought there are “two cleansings”. He said that we must have the inside cleaned first and made holy (cleansed from sin and a pure heart placed within) and then, afterwards, the outside (our lives, actions, deeds, appearance, etc...) will come clean. Jesus' all-cleansing sin-killing, deep penetrating, stain removing blood (and oh how powerful it is) cleanses us first within thereby make us holy, and the Apostle Paul further expounded and said that we are to assist in cleansing ourselves outwardly afterwards. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Sadly, some people have attempted to reverse this process and insist on outward holiness before inward holiness. Two-step teachers believe that a justified believer still possesses, and is indeed driven by, a sinful carnal nature (a sinful heart) even after he is saved. They believe that a "justified" person is still categorized as a sinner because of inherited sin from Adam (in other words, a sinner at heart saved by grace). I'm afraid that some have watered down the blood of Jesus and the true plan of salvation so as to require two applications to be cleansed from sin. The two cleansing teaching attempts to require a believer to live an outwardly holy life after he is justified, while arguing that the inside, the believer's heart, is still sinful and in need of another "cleansing". Contrary to Scripture, this method requires that one cleanse first the outside, so that the inside may come clean. My friend, this teaching is 180 degrees from the Truth. It is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught. God does not justify us in sin or in a sinful heart condition. He delivers and saves us from sin! There are no such persons as "sinners saved by grace", for if there were such persons, what would they be "saved" from? Being saved is more then just some label, it is a living experience, followed by a life lived!


    Ons siele was beveil dit was onrein en kon nie voor die reinheid van God wees nie so wat doen God Hy tap sy eie bloed in ons in, Hy maak ons skoon n nuwe mens.

    So daar is geen nuwe storie daar is net n regte eiende aan n storie wat van die spoor afgegaan het, .

    Jesus bring nuwe lewe, nie n nuwe storie nie, hy Brings life so that we can live abundantly, He wases away our sins makes us as white as snow, Sleg met Jesus kan ons na die Vader! Jesus is ons veilige hawe, Hy is ons krag, Hy is ons meester, ons herder, ons Heer, Hy is ons shield, ons swaard, As ons die plan aanvaar die offering wat Jesus gemaak het aanvaar is ons weer leewding!
    Jesus is the Redeemer and Author of Salvation
    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2
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  5. #45
    Member Antje De waal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken. Deuteronomy 18:15

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

    And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21

    And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:25-32

    The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4:25,26

    And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ. Luke 4:41

    I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:30-33

    He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:15-17

    Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61,62

    Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:25-27

    Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

    For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:28

    Of this man's seed hath God according to His Promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus. Acts 13:23

    John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

    And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

    And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins. 1 John 3:5a

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4-5

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
    Jesus suffered the penalty for everyone
    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

    He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:7

    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

    To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. John 18:37

    For he hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (Jesus). II Corinthians 5:21

    And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified Him. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; For they know not what they do. Luke 23:33,34
    Jesus was resurrected from the grave
    He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. Matthew 28:6

    Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene. Mark 16:9

    And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed. Luke 24:33,34

    This is now the third time that Jesus showed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. John 21:14

    Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. Acts 17:3

    It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Romans 8:34

    And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 1 Corinthians 15:14

    But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1 Corinthians 15:20

    If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1
    Jesus promised the righteous a place in heaven
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:2,3

    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Luke 10:19,20

    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:4

    Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25,26

    And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Acts 4:33

    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Corinthians 15:50-55

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 19:9

    And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God. Revelation 21:9-10

    And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:5
    Ek weet met wie ek te doen het ... PC van der walt

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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    ..........
    Antje jy het nou killometers teks aangehaal, wat is jou standpund nou eintlik?

    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus

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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    As ons die plan aanvaar die offering wat Jesus gemaak het aanvaar is ons weer leewding!
    Antje jammer maar ek kan nie deel he in die "plan" wat Kajafas en die kerk van die dag gesmee het nie, nog minder kan ek aanvaar dat die "plan" wat die kerk vandag nog aanvoer as ons redding, enige voordeel vir my kan inhou nie.

    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?


    Stefanus

    Dit is hoe ek dit sien , Jesus het gekom om ons goed te leer, en baie van wat wat ons moet leer is nie so veel in sy gesprekke nie maar hoe HY gelewe het,

    Kom ons begin by vergifness....

    Wat gebeer in ons harte as ons vergewe? hoe vergewe ons? wat maak dat ons vergewe?

    As jy kyk na die lewe van Jesus is daar oor en oor vergifness, God vra dat ons vergewe sodat Hy ons kan vergewe, so wat is die prosess van vergifness? Selfsacrifice, jopu moet jou trots jou haat, ag al daai gevoelens weg bere om iemand te kan vergewe n deel van jou self moet jy ( die slegte deel) moet jy oorkom, en soms is dit swaar en is vergifness nie maklik nie. Nou kom ons kyk na die kruis.

    God kom aarde toe Hy lewe tussen ons, en ons vertrap hom, ons onteer Hom, Ons maak Hom dood \, wat doen God Hy laat toe dat ons hom vertrap, slaan, speog ens en om ons te vergewe le Hy sy lewe neer, the ultimate form of forgiveness self sacrtefice so that we are forgiven.

    He is the King of Kings Lord of Lords, en hy was die voete van sy dienaars, hubleness.

    Aaan die kruis hang Hy langs n dief, en nog steeds het hy liefde vir die mens. Vandag sien ek jou in my vader se huis.... aan n dief \, LIEFDE nog n stunning voorbeeld van wat Jesus se doel was.

    Hy het gekom om as voorbeeld vir ons te wees, en aan die einde van alles Stefanus moet jy jou sondige lewe sacrifice en moet jy jou lewe opgee om HOM te dien,

    Jesus was en is en sal altyd wees GOD, HERE, DIE I AM, Aan die einde van jou lewe stefanus moet jy strewe om soos Jesus te wees, en HY het in Sy liefde vir ons die voorbeeld kom gee!

    Die plan stefanus vir jou en my is nie deur n mens gemaak nie maar Deer God die Vader (en nee die die adam koning nie) God het gekom ons ons te wys hoe om die pad terug ge vind na sy hart hoe om die sonde te oorkom, en hoe om weer in eenheid met HOM te wees, in sy arms in SY HUIS, Hy het die voorbeeld neer gele ons moet dit volg.

    Jy kan kies om te lewe soos wat Jesus dit vir ons voorgele het of jy kan kies om teen sy leering integaan.

    So korliks wat leer Jesus ons

    Forgivenss - Self sacrefice, hubleness, undeing love, comapssion, the willingness to serve,

    Stefanus aan die einde van my lewe wil ek voor God staan en se ek het die voorbeeld gevolg. ek het gesien en gehoor.

    Ek weet net dit stefanus in my lewe is Jesus God nie die seun van die mens nie maar God!

    Stefanus ek is my ma en pa se kind maak dit my my ma en pa?
    ek is in die beeld van my ouers maak dit my man en vrou in een liggaam ( crossdressers sal mal wees oor hierde stelling) nee ek is vrou, en ek is ek, ek is vlees ek is gees en ek is siel nes my ma en pa.

    Jy sien stefanus in die einde is dit nie werke nie is dit nie kenis nie maar jou lewe en keuses wat sal verseeker dat jy hemel toe gaan of hel toe. En die voorbeeld van hoe jy moet lewe is vir jou gegee.

    Jy kan kies stefanus om vir altyd teen die leering van Jesus tewerk maar die dag gaan Kom waar God se genoeg is genoeg wat gaan jy se maar God die een oog attie daar agter het n boek getik wat se jy is n vrou so ek glo dit? Kenis stefanus gaan jou net so verbring maar Jesus sal jou die hele pad vat, as jy so angstig is om God te leer ken leer Jesus Ken en jy sal leer wie God is maar jy wil dit nie eers doen nie, so as jy vir Ra en Re ens wil dien doen dit maar vra jou self die vraag is hulle in die voetspore van Jesus.....

    In liefde met Jesus.

    Father i come before you now and i bow down, Father in the name of Jesus your Son do I ask that you will remove al falsehoods, all lies, that you will open the eyes of your children, Father i braek the lies in the name of Jesus, Father in you Holy name I pray that all will feel you true love, will see You and will bow before your thorne, Father i ask that you will make your love evident in their life's, Father I ask that all lies and door's that satan might use be revealed and that it will be sealed of, Father in your name I ask that you destroy all lies and strongholds, in the name of Your Son i demand all that is not of you to be destroyed, In the name of Your Son i command all lies to be revealed, Father i ask that you will show your might hand in their lives, Father but mostly show them your LOVE, I ask this in Jesus Name AMEN!


    See you soon



    Geniet jou dag verder stefanus
    Ek weet met wie ek te doen het ... PC van der walt

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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Dit is hoe ek dit sien , Jesus het gekom om ons goed te leer, en baie van wat wat ons moet leer is nie so veel in sy gesprekke nie maar hoe HY gelewe het,
    Antje jy het seker 'n punt daar beet, so kom ons gaan kyk na die historiese Jesus en hou vir 'n oomblik by die feite.
    Wie was Jesus as persoon, die een wat sy volgers verplig het om 'n swaard te koop en as hy/sy nie een het nie om sy bo-kleed te verkoop om een aan te skaf?


    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Nou kom ons kyk na die kruis.

    God kom aarde toe Hy lewe tussen ons,

    Aaan die kruis hang Hy langs n dief,
    Die folterhout? Satan se oorwinningskruis? of die folterpaal van die Romeine, waarmee hulle persone wat van sedissie teenoor die staat skuldig bevind was tereggestel het?

    Die Vader stuur Sy geliefde Seun om vir ons oor die Koninkryk van die Hemele te kom leer. Niks te make met die "kerk" se liegstories oor God wat mens geword het nie.

    Jesus word deur "die bose" aan die Romeine oorgelewer, dié verhoor Jesus en vind Hom skuldig aan sedissie teen die staat, Hy word op die gebruiklike wyse deur die owerheid aan 'n folterpaal vasgespyker, die twee mense aan weerskante van Jesus was twee van sy bevelvoerders in sy weermag wat teen die Romeine opgetree het, nie "diewe" soos die "kerk" jou wil laat glo nie.


    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Hy het gekom om as voorbeeld vir ons te wees,
    Heeltemal korrek Antje, is jy bereid om vir jou 'n swaard aan te skaf en Hom in Sy voetspore te volg? Of gaan jy die maklike uitweg neem en die "kerk" volg?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Jesus was en is en sal altyd wees GOD, HERE, DIE I AM, Aan die einde van jou lewe stefanus moet jy strewe om soos Jesus te wees, en HY het in Sy liefde vir ons die voorbeeld kom gee!
    Antje, Jesus is wel Goddelik maar nooit die "HERE" of die "I AM" soos waarna jy verwys nie, ook moet ek ook nie aan die "einde van my lewe" soos Jesus wees nie, maar as kind van God moet ek reeds soos my broer Jesus lewe!

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Die plan stefanus vir jou en my is nie deur n mens gemaak nie maar Deer God die Vader (en nee die die adam koning nie) God het gekom ons ons te wys hoe om die pad terug ge vind na sy hart hoe om die sonde te oorkom, en hoe om weer in eenheid met HOM te wees, in sy arms in SY HUIS, Hy het die voorbeeld neer gele ons moet dit volg.
    Antje daar is twee planne, die een deur God en die ander deur die bose, moenie jou tussen die twee laat verwar nie! Ek as kind van God is reeds deel van my Goddelike ouers se huisgesin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Ek weet net dit stefanus in my lewe is Jesus God nie die seun van die mens nie maar God!
    Antje die keuse is joune om in onkunde voort te lewe, maar as jy jou geskrifte/Bybel geken het sou jy geweet het dat God in die tye wat verby is onkunde oorgesien het, Jesus het egter die kom regstel sodat ons nie meer onkunde kan pleit nie, so het jy ook reeds die waarheid geleer, indien jy dus verder die leuen wil navolg is dit uit jou eie.

    Jou gebed laat my wonder of jy werklik glo wat jy se, of jou stelling hierbo is vals en jy weet dit of jy is verward en besef dit nie, as Jesus God is, wie is Sy Vader en wie is Sy God, Antje?

    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Hoe sluit die Witboek by die Bybel aan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post

    Stefanus

    Jesus was en is en sal altyd wees GOD, HERE, DIE I AM,
    Antje.

    Ek sluit hier by Stefanus aan.

    God is die Elohim (androgeen) van Genesis 1:1, maar nie Jesus nie, ook nie die HERE nie en ook nie die Vader nie.

    Die HERE is Jahweh (die Jaloerse Wese), ook bekend as die Almagtige van Genesis 2:4, maar nie Jesus nie.

    Die "I Am" is Jahweh, maar nie die Elohim of Jesus nie.

    Jy bid respekvol tot die Vader. Maar die Vader is nie die Elohim nie en ook nie Jahweh nie, maar wel die Vader van Jesus.

    Sonder om disrespekvol te klink, vra ek jou dus: "Weet jy tot wie jy bid?"

    Liefde groete.

    Die Ou Man

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