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Thread: Is Jesus die Wysheid van God

  1. #21
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    Default Sophia (wisdom)


    Sophia (wisdom)


    Personification of wisdom (in Greek, "Σοφία" or "Sophia") at the Celsus Library in Ephesus, Turkey.
    Sophia (ΣoφŪα, Greek for "wisdom") is a central term in Hellenistic philosophy and religion, Platonism, Gnosticism, Orthodox Christianity, Esoteric Christianity, as well as Christian mysticism. Sophiology is a philosophical concept regarding wisdom, as well as a theological concept regarding the wisdom of God.

    In Hebrew texts

    Sophia is adopted as the term in the Septuagint for Hebrew חכמות Ḥokmot. In Judaism, Chokhmah appears alongside the Shekhinah, 'the Glory of God', a figure who plays a key role in the cosmology of the Kabbalists as an expression of the feminine aspect of God. It is a central topic in the "sapiential" books (i.e., the eponymous Book of Wisdom as well as Ecclesiastes and Proverbs). A key passage which personifies Wisdom/Sophia in the Hebrew Bible is Proverbs 8:22-31.

    In the New Testament

    Paul refers to the concept, notably in 1 Corinthians, but obscurely, deconstructing worldly wisdom:
    "Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (1 Corinthians 1:20)

    Paul sets worldly wisdom against a higher wisdom of God:
    "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory." (1 Corinthians 2:7)

    Eastern Orthodoxy

    The concept of Sophia has been championed as a key part of the Godhead by some Eastern Orthodox religious thinkers. These included Vladimir Solovyov, Pavel Florensky, Nikolai Berdyaev, and Sergei Bulgakov whose book Sophia: The Wisdom of God is in many ways the apotheosis of Sophiology. For Bulgakov, the Sophia is co-existent with the Trinity, operating as the feminine aspect of God in concert with the three masculine principles of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    Roman Catholic mysticism

    In Roman Catholic mysticism, Hildegard of Bingen celebrated Sophia as a cosmic figure in both her writing and her art.

    Protestant mysticism

    Sophia can be described as the wisdom of God, and, at times, as a pure virgin spirit which emanates from God. The Sophia is seen as being expressed in all creation and the natural world as well as, for some of the Christian mystics mentioned above, integral to the spiritual well-being of humankind, the church, and the cosmos. The Virgin is seen as outside creation but compassionately interceding on behalf of humanity to alleviate its suffering by illuminating true spiritual seekers with wisdom and the love of God.

    The main difference between the concept of Sophia found in most traditional forms of Christian mysticism and the one more aligned with the Gnostic view of Sophia is that to many Christian mystics she is not seen as fallen or in need of redemption. Conversely, she is not as central in most forms of established Christianity as she is in Gnosticism, but to some Christian mystics the Sophia is a very important concept.

    In Gnosticism

    A feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the Feminine aspects of God and the Bride of Christ, In Gnostic tradition, the term Sophia refers to the final and lowest emanation of God.

    Almost all Gnostic systems of the Syrian or Egyptian type taught that the universe began with an original, unknowable God, referred to as the Parent or Bythos, or as the Monad by Monoimus. It can also be equated to the concept of Logos in stoic, esoteric, or theosophical terms (The 'Unknown Root') as well as the Ein Sof of the Kabbalah and Brahman in Hinduism. It is also known as the first ∆on by still other traditions. From this initial unitary beginning, the One spontaneously emanated further ∆ons, being pairs of progressively 'lesser' beings in sequence. The lowest of these pairs were Sophia and Christ. The ∆ons together made up the Pleroma, or fullness, of God, and thus should not be seen as distinct from the divine, but symbolic abstractions of the divine nature.

    Nag Hammadi

    In the Nag Hammadi, Sophia is the lowest ∆on, or anthropic expression of the emanation of the light of God. She is the syzygy of Jesus Christ (i.e. she forms a unity with Christ, being cojoined with him), and Gnostics believed that she was the Holy Spirit of the Trinity. Sophia is depicted as the creator of the material universe in On the Origin of the World. Furthermore, the planet Earth and everything on it was indeed created by the Old Testament God, but he is depicted as fundamentally corrupt. Because Sophia created the material universe and its god (also known as Yaldabaoth, Samael, and Demiurge) either without her syzygy1 Jesus Christ or, in another tradition, because she tried to breach the barrier between herself and the unknowable Bythos.

    1 In Gnosticism, a syzygy is a divine active-passive, male-female pair of aeons, complementary to one another rather than oppositional; in their totality they comprise the divine realm of the Pleroma, and in themselves characterise aspects of the unknowable Gnostic God. The term is most common in Valentinianism. In some gnostic schools, the counterpart to Christ was Sophia.

    Sophia_Mystical.jpg
    A mystical depiction of Sophia from Geheime
    Figuren der Rosenkreuzer, Altona, 1785.



  2. #22
    Member Antje De waal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Jesus die Wysheid van God

    Hey ek was lanklaas hier, en dis verbaasedn om te sien hoe baie julle al gegroei het "nie dat ek kan se ek is bly nie" maar nogsteeds....

    Stefanus dankie vir jou insette ek het dit gelees en wel jy lig baie goeie punte, of bring sterk punte tot die tafel, maar.........

    Kom ons gaan op die opvatting dat sophia well iets of iemand van belang is, op wat baseer jy dit? As ek so deur die bybel lees en terug gaan na die oorspronklike teks dan kry ek die woord sophia baie maar in konteks verwys dit nie altyd na n vrou nie, sophia is volgens my dan nie n vrou wat beskyf word nie maar wel n woord wat iets of iemand beklemtoon as mens gaan en kyk word sophia baie gebruik om God se wysheid en insig te bepaal en beklemtoon, nie om n ander god of godin te bewerkstellig nie, ek kyk logies daarna as die grond wat jylle opstaan dan bruin is dan moet dit mos bruin wees. Wat ek bedoel is dit as sophia verwys na n godin sal al die ander verse wat na die woord sophia verwys ook tog op n mate na n vroulike entiteit wys nie waar nie? Kom ons kyk na die woord Gloria of Glory die woord word ook as n vroulike entiteit beskou maar tog is dit nie dis net n bewkrywing van God se wonderlikheid, nou word die woord gebruik om n vrou uit te beeld, was dit oorspronklik vroulik of nie, so vra ek die selfde van Sophia ons het dit wel nou vroulike gemaak maar was die woord van die begin van alles af vroulik of was dit net n woord wat n bewrywing van iets is of was, kyk maar die naam Gloria, kom oorals voor n vroulike form...

    Jy gee die hele opbreek hier bo en tog maak dit nie sin nie ek weet nie dalkies is dit die ou blonde hartjies wat nou staan en inmeng :smilewinkgrin: maar as 1 en 1 saam tel moet dit mos 2 maak jy kan nie 1 en 1 drie maak nie?

    Adam die woord van self het nie n manlike konetasie nie maar tog is dit nou as manlik bestemple, vir my het een en een nog altyd twee gegee...

    Ek het baie gaan dink en tog na baie gedink is ek nog steeds of dom of DOM, ek weet nie so mooi nie kom ons kyk na die punte wat julle lig of opstel om die werking van die witboekers of is dit mormons te kan eenselwig of is die woord ondersteun die regte een.

    Een die aarde is nie deur God gemaak nie maar wel in werklikheid in gespreek duer adam en eva wat gees was of is...
    Die gedeelte hier bo word geondersteun deur julle witboek....

    Satanaku was een van die kinders van die ouer paar wat toe die woord of creation woord verkeerd uitgespreek het of met verkeerde bedoelings...
    Die punt word ook geondersteun deur julle witboek ....

    Een van die drielinge bly agter en word toe in die sondige ligaam wat geskape is deur satanaku vas gevang...
    ook net julle witboek vir bestawing...

    Daar is n rooi geel blou ... bende of afdeelings van satanaku se bendes en doen sy werk..
    Weereens net die witboek vir bestawing

    dan is daar die hele ding van johannes die doper wat n reincarnation van wie is, wel die is nou die Bybel as bestawing... maar tog die punt wat se mens sal net een keer dood gaan endan is dit die oordeel word nie in ag geneem nie, dan die punt wat die bybel na verwys is die gees van die ou en nie sy siel nie.

    Alle gees behoort aan God die siel nou dit is die teer punt nie waar nie... ons keuses hier wat gaan bepaal...

    ek hoop tot dus ver kry ek all die punte reg wat julle glo, as nie help asb soos ek se ek was lanklaas hier gewees.

    Dan daar is meer as een god gebaseer op die witboek en die bybel, maar ek voel dat daar nie gelet word op die stuk wat se geen ander god nie, daar mag dalk wel meer as een god of gode wees maar ek sien die stuk van GEEN aNDER GOD as baie erenstig.

    Ek het wel gelees in genesis as julle gaan kyk die son en maan word genoem en God se nie E-vam nie se en hulle sal heers! in klein letters beteken dit die son en die maan is n god of gode ek weet nie maak dit saak nee, maar wat verander dit tog aan hoe ek lewe, my doen en late? Niks rerig...

    Ek sal graag will weet wat julle daarvan dink

    Groete

    Antje
    Ek weet met wie ek te doen het ... PC van der walt

  3. #23
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    Default Is Jesus die Wysheid van God

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Dan daar is meer as een god gebaseer op die witboek en die bybel, maar ek voel dat daar nie gelet word op die stuk wat se geen ander god nie, daar mag dalk wel meer as een god of gode wees maar ek sien die stuk van GEEN aNDER GOD as baie erenstig.
    Hello Antje,

    Quoting the Gospel of the Nazirenes

    Yeshua/Jesus Said: "But the time cometh when darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people, and the enemies of truth and righteousness shall rule in my name, and set up a kingdom of this world and oppress the peoples.... putting for my doctrines the opinions of men, and teaching in my name that which I have not taught and darkening much that I have taught by their traditions. But be of good cheer, for the time will also come when the truth they have hidden shall be manifested and the light shall shine, and the darkness shall pass away and the true kingdom shall be established which shall be in the world but not of it, and the word of righteousness and love shall go forth from the Center...."

    Lees gerus die volgende stuk: The Demiurge dan sal die stuk oor die "Geen Ander GOD" meer sin maak.

    "Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come."


    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Kom ons gaan op die opvatting dat sophia well iets of iemand van belang is, op wat baseer jy dit?
    Ek haal die volgende aan uit "The Sophia of Jesus Christ"

    Matthew said to him: "Lord, Savior, how was Man revealed?"

    The perfect Savior said: "I want you to know that he who appeared before the universe in infinity, Self-grown, Self-constructed Father, being full of shining light and ineffable, in the beginning, when he decided to have his likeness become a great power, immediately the principle (or beginning) of that Light appeared as Immortal Androgynous Man, that through that Immortal Androgynous Man they might attain their salvation and awake from forgetfulness through the interpreter who was sent, who is with you until the end of the poverty of the robbers.

    "And his consort is the Great Sophia, who from the first was destined in him for union by Self-begotten Father, from Immortal Man, who appeared as First and divinity and kingdom, for the Father, who is called 'Man, Self-Father', revealed this. And he created a great aeon, whose name is 'Ogdoad', for his own majesty.

    "He was given great authority, and he ruled over the creation of poverty. He created gods and angels, <and> archangels, myriads without number for retinue, from that Light and the tri-male Spirit, which is that of Sophia, his consort. For from this, God originated divinity and kingdom. Therefore he was called 'God of gods' and 'King of kings'.

    "First Man has his unique mind, within, and thought - just as he is it (thought) - (and) considering, reflecting, rationality, power. All the attributes that exist are perfect and immortal. In respect to imperishableness, they are indeed equal. (But) in respect to power, they are different, like the difference between father and son <, and son> and thought, and the thought and the remainder. As I said earlier, among the things that were created, the monad is first.

    "And after everything, all that was revealed appeared from his power. And from what was created, all that was fashioned appeared; from what was fashioned appeared what was formed; from what was formed, what was named. Thus came the difference among the unbegotten ones from beginning to end."

    Then Bartholomew said to him: "How (is it that) <he> was designated in the Gospel 'Man' and 'Son of Man'? To which of them, then, is this Son related?"

    The Holy One said to him: "I want you to know that First Man is called 'Begetter, Self-perfected Mind'. He reflected with Great Sophia, his consort, and revealed his first-begotten, androgynous son. His male name is designated 'First Begetter, Son of God', his female name, 'First Begettress Sophia, Mother of the Universe'. Some call her 'Love'. Now First-begotten is called 'Christ'. Since he has authority from his father, he created a multitude of angels without number for retinue from Spirit and Light."

    His disciples said to him: "Lord, reveal to us about the one called 'Man', that we also may know his glory exactly."

    The perfect Savior said: "Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. First Begetter Father is called 'Adam, Eye of Light,' because he came from shining Light, and his holy angels, who are ineffable (and) shadowless, ever rejoice with joy in their reflecting, which they received from their Father. The whole Kingdom of Son of Man, who is called 'Son of God,' is full of ineffable and shadowless joy, and unchanging jubilation, (they) rejoicing over his imperishable glory, which has never been heard until now, nor has it been revealed in the aeons that came afterward, and their worlds. I came from Self-begotten and First Infinite Light, that I might reveal everything to you."

    Again, his disciples said: "Tell us clearly how they came down from the invisibilities, from the immortal to the world that dies?"

    The perfect Savior said: "Son of Man consented with Sophia, his consort, and revealed a great androgynous light. His male name is designated 'Savior, Begetter of All Things'. His female name is designated 'All-Begettress Sophia'. Some call her 'Pistis'.

    "All who come into the world, like a drop from the Light, are sent by him to the world of Almighty, that they might be guarded by him. And the bond of his forgetfulness bound him by the will of Sophia, that the matter might be <revealed> through it to the whole world in poverty, concerning his (Almighty's) arrogance and blindness and the ignorance that he was named. But I came from the places above by the will of the great Light, (I) who escaped from that bond; I have cut off the work of the robbers; I have awakened that drop that was sent from Sophia, that it might bear much fruit through me, and be perfected and not again be defective, but be <joined> through me, the Great Savior, that his glory might be revealed, so that Sophia might also be justified in regard to that defect, that her sons might not again become defective but might attain honor and glory and go up to their Father, and know the words of the masculine Light. And you were sent by the Son, who was sent that you might receive Light, and remove yourselves from the forgetfulness of the authorities, and that it might not again come to appearance because of you, namely, the unclean rubbing that is from the fearful fire that came from their fleshly part. Tread upon their malicious intent."





    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus

  4. #24
    Member Antje De waal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Jesus die Wysheid van God

    Quote Originally Posted by Ou Sanna View Post
    Hi Anje

    Hier is iets wat ek vantevore geplaas het, miskien vind jy iets daarin.

    6:22 Ek sal julle vertel wat Wysheid is en waar Sy vandaan kom. Ek sal niks vir julle wegsteek nie. Ek sal Haar pad saam met julle volg van die skepping af en julle net mooi alles van haar vertel. Julle sal die volle waarheid hoor.

    7:1 Ek het daarom daaroor gebid en GOD het my begrip gegee. Ek het tot GOD geroep en die Gees van Wysheid het na my toe gekom.
    7:12 Oor al hierdie dinge is ek bly omdat Wysheid dit saam met Haar bring. Ek het nie besef dat Sy eintlik die Moeder van al hierdie dinge is nie.
    7:13 Ywerig het ek van Haar geleer. Ek vertel vir almal openlik van Haar en steek niks van Haar rykdom weg nie.
    7:14 Vir mense is Sy 'n onberekenbare skat. Die persoon wat hierdie skat kry, word ook vriende met GOD, want die vrug van Haar onderrig open die pad na GOD.

    Van Johannes sÍ geleerdes dat Johannes hierdie beskrywings geken het en gebruik het om van Jesus te vertel. In Johannes is Jesus nie net die Een wat ons na GOD toe lei en vir ons soos 'n lig is nie, maar Hy is GOD. (Joh 1:1,8 & 20:28)

    7:15 Mag GOD aan my die vermoŽ gee om te praat soos Hy wil hÍ en om gedagtes te dink wat pas by wat ek geleer is. Want HY is die gids van Wysheid en die EEN wat die wyse die pad wys.
    7:22,23 Ja, Wysheid, wat al hierdie dinge hulle bestaan gegee het, het my geleer. Sy is intelligent, HEILIG, uniek, ........en deurdring alle geeste wat intelligent, rein en terughoudend is.
    7:24 Niks kan onder Wysheid uitbeweeg nie. Omdat Sy so rein en suiwer is, dring Sy deur alle dinge.
    7:25 Sy is die toonbeeld van die krag van GOD en straal die glorie van die ALMAGTIGE uit. Onreinheid kan dus nie 'n houvas op Haar kry nie.
    7:26 Sy is die afstraling van ewige lig, 'n perfekte spieelbeeld van die werk van GOD, 'n beeld van SY goedheid.
    7:27 Al is SY NET EEN kan Sy alles doen en nuut maak, howel Sy self nie verander nie. Van geslag tot geslag gaan Sy in Heilige mense in en maak van hulle vriende van GOD en die profete.
    7:28 Want GOD het niks anders lief as die mens in wie die Wysheid woon nie.
    8:1 Sy strek Haarself magtig uit van die een punt van die aarde na die ander. Sy beheer alle dinge goed.

    Hier dink ek dadelik aan die volgende in Gen 1:2

    2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


    8:3 Sy doen Haar edele geboorte nog meer eer aan deur by GOD te leef, en GOD van alles het Haar lief.
    8:4 Sy ken GOD deeglik en is betrokke by sy werke.
    8:13 Sy sal sorg dat ek ontsterflikheid kry.
    8:17 .....Saam met Wysheid is daar onsterflikheid.
    8:21 Tog het ek besef dat ek nie Wysheid in die hande sou kry as GOD dit nie vir my sou gee nie - dit alleen is al 'n teken van insig om te weet van Wie hierdie gawe kom. Ek het my na GOD gewend en HOM gesmeek en met my hele hart gesÍ:

    Hier raak dit nou baie mooi......

    9:1 O, GOD van my vaders, Heer wat goed is ver bo wat ons verdien. U het alles gemaak deur net 'n woord te spreek.

    Ek lees niks van vorm uit grond ens. nie??????

    9:4 Gee my asseblief die Wysheid wat by U troon sit.
    9:9 "Wysheid is by U en weet wat U doen. SY WAS TEENWOORDIG TOE U DIE WERELD GEMAAK HET Wysheid verstaan wat U graag wil sien en wat reg is soos U beveel het.

    9:10 Stuur Haar asseblief na my toe uit U Heilige Hemele uit en van die Troon van U glorie af, sodat Sy by my kan wees....

    Hier kom die volledige "antwoord" nou:

    9:17 Wie sou ooit kon weet wat U dink as U nie die Wysheid gegee het en U Heilige Gees van U af, na ons toe gestuur het nie?

    Anje, wonder jy nog?

    Groete
    Ou Sanna
    Uit water gedeelte van die bybel kom die boonste of is dit uit een van die boeke wat nie in die bybel is nie?
    Ek weet met wie ek te doen het ... PC van der walt

  5. #25
    Stefanus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Jesus die Wysheid van God

    Quote Originally Posted by Antje De waal View Post
    Uit water gedeelte van die bybel kom die boonste of is dit uit een van die boeke wat nie in die bybel is nie?
    Hier is daar Ďn baie fyn lyn tussen geloof en bygeloof, of is dit eerder 'n geloof in bygeloof Antje? Om geloof in iets te he is goed maar om die die bybel op te hef as enigste gesag en "Gods Woord" skreeu bygeloof en is nie meer goed nie.

    Liefdegroete,
    Stefanus

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